Well, let me start off by saying this: Fallout 3 is what introduced me to Fallout, I loved the game and still do. However, after playing the first two, and New Vegas, I can say that it PALES in comparison in terms of RPG elements and writing. Now, I've been an Elder Scrolls fan as well, but after Skyrim's release, I can quite honestly say the whole thing feels very watered down, shallow if you will.

Skyrim lacks the depth and meaning the previous titles had, and very much caters to the casual crowd, adopting a sort of who cares about a few original fans when there's joe blow on the block to reel in. Now, my point is that I think I'm starting to understand why FO3 was so jarring to the original fans. And my honest question is this: Where do you think FO4 is headed? Because after Skyrim... my hopes are not very high. At all. Matter of fact, I can almost gurantee SPECIAL will be removed, which sounds appaling, but its very much possible.

Since FO3 butchered the series according to several of you, do you think Beth has a chance at redemption, or is Fallout going to suffer the same fate as TES (aka, being dumbed down to an appalingly low level.) Peace out

- Frank

There is a chance for redemption, imo. Weither or not Bethesda takes that chance and makes a phinominal FO game like Obsidian did with FNV however, remains to be seen. I won't get my hopes up after what happened with FO3 and BGS making FO games.

I personally don't think Fallout 3 ruined or butchered the series. It had plot holes and messed up a lot of lore with the Enclave and BoS but nothing that can't be fixed with time and good writers.

And I really hope Bethedsa half assed the writing because:
A) There good writers were working on Fallout 4's writing from right after the release of Fallout 3.

They did not think TES fans would care much about bad writing but think Fallout fans do and are working hard with F4's writing.

C) Both of the above.

This is probably just wishful thinking though.

Well, I'm on the fence as I'm confused about it's direction.
On one hand, bethesda had to make sure Fallout 3 sold well and did what they do best in order to gain profit, I can understand that, and they were new to the series.
But now they've had time to learn the series and even licensed Obsidian to create New Vegas which was miles ahead of Fallout 3.
So Bethesda might see what Fallout really is from Obsidians work and try to separate it from TES.

On the other hand, Bethesda is a business, and after what happened with Fallout 3's "We need to play it safe" and Skyrims ridiculous casualization I fear for Fallout as Bethesda only cares about money.

I mean, if they did "that" *points to Skyrim* to their own franchise, why would they treat a franchise alien to them any better?

So on one hand, Fallout 3 was their first go at it and they might have learned from Obsidian.
On the other hand. Skyrim.


Ugh...

Maybe I'm missing something here, but from what I've played of Skyrim (and granted I'm only about 3/4ths or so into way into the main two storylines) I thought it was well written and quite good. Excellent in fact. Granted there is some casualization perhaps but overall I felt it was superb.

Funny thing is that people were (and still are) saying the same thing about Oblivion. Its an never ending cycle and no-one is ever happy really.

Go figure.


*points to signature*

I thought you liked Skyrim?

NV proves the problem isn't in the storytelling tools, its in the story thats being told. As such, the faults are within Bethesda's ability to fix.

Ah, let me fix the signature.


*edits edits edits*

There, now it's in past tense.

I still don't "hate" it. I managed to get 230 hours into the damn game.

I'm inclined to agree with Gabe on this one. Skyrim was obviously geared towards exploration and pointless loot fests than it was story-telling, the guilds were shorter and less complicated and the whole thing just struck me as a huge map with various quest chains for the Civil War, Main Plot and the Guilds doted about.

"The wreckage of the Brinehammer is too the north, might still be some treasures around there." EVERY CHEST HAS [censored] IN IT.

I fear that this is going to be the future of Fallout, but then again Bethesda did put choices and such into quests because that's what happens in Fallout, in Elder Scrolls - or at least Oblivion - quests only had one real ending and were incredibly linear and that's what happened in Skyrim. Maybe it won't be as bad as we all think but it'd be optimism beyond belief at this point to think I was going leave Fallout 4 happy - after Skyrim.

You hope they half ass it?


Indeed tis' true about OB. Morrowind is in my opinion the better of the two however.

Point still remains that you once though it was good. So what changed? Why do you suddenly feel it is unworthy to be an Elder Scrolls game?

Why is this:


Suddenly valid?

Not trying to be condescending here, I'm just genuinely curious.


Yeah, I guess I'm just suspicious when suddenly only one of the games is the "true" Elder Scrolls series game.

Maybe I'm just being too optimistic for Fallout 4. Or I'm easily impressed.

Correct!
But only for Skyrim, not F4.

In my opinion, they basicaly clipped the nuts of the Elder Scrolls, to be blunt. Is it a good game? Yes. Good as it could've, and should've, been? No. Not at all.

I guess I'm just not in a position to judge the Elder Scrolls series as a whole. I've only played Oblivion and Skyrim so my judgement is obviously impaired.

Just seems to me that when Oblivion came out, it was claimed it ruined the series by some, now that Skyrim's coming out the same thing seems to be happening on some level. Which makes me think those arguments aren't really valid.

Like I said though, I'm not really one to judge.

Needless to say though if Skyrim impressed me I guess I don't have much to worry about for Fallout 4. That's heartening.


They had quite a while to work on Skyrim I think. I guarantee it wasn't half-assed.

I mean that they cut out and streamlined so many previous features just so that it could remain accessible to anyone and everyone.
And while TES has always been about exploration (as far as I know) this time they turned it up to eleven.



As to my signature, I liked Skyrim at first.
I was put under it's illusion of grand content only to realize later that it's repetitive, unrewarding, grindy, linear, unbalanced and had mediocre writing.
So at first I liked Skyrim. But just like with any game you will see it's flaws sooner or later.
What happens then is whether or not you can accept these flaws and try to work around them or get mods to fix them.
I couldn't.

I mean, same thing happened with New Vegas, I saw A LOT of flaws in it, but once I got it for PC I could mod it to suit my taste and it became fun again.
Sure enough I'm not enjoying it "vanilla" anymore, but I've been able to fix or work around the flaws it had.

Skyrim, I liked at first, but now when the flaws has become apparent to me, I can't like it anymore
It's quest rewards will always be unrewarding, same with chests.
It's enemies will be unbalanced until a massive overhaul mod comes along to fix the meat shield enemies.
But even then it's dungeons will be repetitive, linear and boring.

I still don't "hate" skyrim.
I was able to get a lot of entertainment value out of it and it's a good sightseeing/dungeon crawler game.
But it's not for me.

Skyrim sure felt half assed.

On a completely unrelated note: What the hell is your avatar? It freaks me out. O_o

I'm going to try to sig this quote. These are my sentiments exactly. The world is super pretty, but that's about it. I'be given up playing Skyrim to go back to FONV for a few more playthroughs.

Sorry but I thought skyrim's writing,characters and plot where poor and one dimensional.I mean explain what you like about the story.
OT I have to agree with gabe , you look at as hey it was there first attempt and they can learn from obsidian or they'll dumb it down ala skyrim .

It's Steve Buscemi but altered. At least I hope its altered

Just Dance 3 sold more like copies than skyrim, maybe they will switch things up a bit.

Off topic.

I'm going to have to agree with Gabriel Kyle, what is that picture of?

I'm a fan of the original series, and Fallout 1 is my second favorite game (after PST). I enjoy Fallout 3 immensely for what it is... A Bethesda-style amusemant-park dungeon-looter. There are lots of funny or interesting locations to explore, monsters to kill, and loot to collect. The world doesn't really present a compelling whole, but it contains plenty of attractions. It's like a Fallout themed Oblivion mod. I never expected anything more from it than that. In fact, I think Fallout 3 is by far the best game in the Elder Scrolls series.

I expect Fallout 4 to be more of the same. It will be another amusemant-park dungeon-looter. Characters and dialogue will all be thin on the ground, and there won't be any overarching narrative to speak of. However, I think I'll enjoy it for what it is.

Let me just say, Welcome to the club. I started with Fallout back in the day, not with Fallout 3, but you aren't alone here. Many people here started with Fallout 3 and now see it as older fans do and as you do.

As for your question, I hope Fallout 4 will be like New Vegas only better and not like Fallout 3 and Skyrim.

In what? The month of January? Yeah maybe. But certainly not total.

IS FALLOUT 3 AN ORIGINAL FALLOUT?!!!