Question regarding Tiber Septim. : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:27 pm

Me and a friend have been looking for info on how Tiber Septim became a Dragonborn but have been... unsuccessful, couldn't find anything that said that he was a descendant from Alessia either.

Could someone please enlighten me?

Apologies if this has been asked before.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:58 am

I'm still trying to figure how he became a god.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:12 am

I'm still trying to figure how he became a god.

Well, now that you mention it...
Is there anything we do know about him? :teehee:

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:44 am

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/rise-tiber-septim

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:55 pm

I'm still trying to figure how he became a god.

From http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-hatta-sphinxmoth-inquiry-tree:

Tiber Septim: "The Stormcrown manted by way of the fourth: the steps of the dead. Mantling and incarnation are separate roads; do not mistake this. The latter is built from the cobbles of drawn-bone destiny. The former: walk like them until they must walk like you. This is the death children bring as the Sons of Hora."

Simply put it, he walk like a god, talk like a god, speak like a god, act like a god, he than become a god.

Ingame example of this is when the hero from Oblivion (CoC) become the Madgod himself simply by acting like the Madgod.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:39 am

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/rise-tiber-septim

Thanks, awesome stuff, although no mention of him becoming dragonborn, sadly. Unless I missed something.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:27 pm

Its not really called "Dragonborn." The clearest description is in Varieties of Faith:

Ysmir (Dragon of the North): The Nordic aspect of Talos. He withstood the power of the Greybeards' voices long enough to hear their prophecy. Later, many Nords could not look on him without seeing a dragon.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:13 pm

Its not really called "Dragonborn." The clearest description is in Varieties of Faith:

But how did he get Akatosh's blood in him? Or is that not needed for wearing the Amulet of Kings/becoming emperor/lighting the dragon fires/being a dragonborn?
I'm a bit confused. :tongue:

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:22 am

The word 'dragonborn' first appeared in the commentaries on the PGE1, from Redguard:

Make no mistake, Talos (now Tiber Septim in resplendant Cyrodilic) is still on the ascendant. I now believe the oracles have been badly misinterpreted - Septim may indeed be the Dragonborn as foretold. The Mer must unite at last or be consumed one by one.

In Morrowind, Varieties of Faith says this about the god Talos (Lady N's quoting the wrong bit):

Tiber Septim (Talos, the Dragonborn): Heir to the Seat of Sundered Kings, Tiber Septim is the most important hero-god of Mankind. He conquered all of Tamriel and ushered in the Third Era (and the Third Empire). Also called Ysmir, 'Dragon of the North'.

As far as I am aware, "dragonborn" is used almost exclusively to refer to Tiber Septim and his descendants - in the one exception, the Nerevarine prophecies say that he will be "dragon-born," meaning born of the Imperial Province, as the player character is. What's important to take away from this is that while Oblivion tried to tie this together with the covenant of Alessia in a really inelegant and poorly explained way, the word "dragonborn" has always meant the Septims, and any different application is a new invention.

But that obviously leaves a large, unanswered question: what is it about Talos that made him "dragonborn." Ideally, this would have been expounded upon by Oblivion, the game theoretically built around the rise and fall of the Septim dynasty, but because Bethesda was attempting to acquire a greater market share in 2006, what we are left with instead are a few scattered notes. Qawsed Asp quotes the most relevant.

The character Nu-Hatta is an important Moth Priest, which means he can read the Elder Scrolls. In the cited text, he briefly discusses the different gods who were alleged to have mortal origins. There's a pretty critical typo in The Imperial Library's version, so I'll requote it in this post:

"The Stormcrown mantled by way of the fourth: the steps of the dead. Mantling and incarnation are separate roads; do not mistake this. The latter is built from the cobbles of drawn-bone destiny. The former: walk like them until they must walk like you. This is the death children bring as the Sons of Hora."

This is extremely obscure and can be hard to understand, but the crucial line is towards the end, Tiber Septim became a god by "walk[ing] like them until they must walk like you." That is to say that his apotheosis was a sort of self-actualization, by his own willpower he became a god. He did not acquire it through some ancient ritual by which a greater power gifted the godhood to him from on high, he stepped up and built it for himself. So he did not receive Akatosh's divine blood so much as he made his own blood as divine as Akatosh's. In a certain sense, this can be seen as the democratizing of divinity: in America, we are told that anyone can be president, in Tamriel, anyone can be a god.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:45 am

Me and a friend have been looking for info on how Tiber Septim became a Dragonborn but have been... unsuccessful, couldn't find anything that said that he was a descendant from Alessia either.

Could someone please enlighten me?

Apologies if this has been asked before.

It says it, right there in the word.

» Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:53 am

The word 'dragonborn' first appeared in the commentaries on the PGE1, from Redguard:

In Morrowind, Varieties of Faith says this about the god Talos (Lady N's quoting the wrong bit):

As far as I am aware, "dragonborn" is used almost exclusively to refer to Tiber Septim and his descendants - in the one exception, the Nerevarine prophecies say that he will be "dragon-born," meaning born of the Imperial Province, as the player character is. What's important to take away from this is that while Oblivion tried to tie this together with the covenant of Alessia in a really inelegant and poorly explained way, the word "dragonborn" has always meant the Septims, and any different application is a new invention.

But that obviously leaves a large, unanswered question: what is it about Talos that made him "dragonborn." Ideally, this would have been expounded upon by Oblivion, the game theoretically built around the rise and fall of the Septim dynasty, but because Bethesda was attempting to acquire a greater market share in 2006, what we are left with instead are a few scattered notes. Qawsed Asp quotes the most relevant.

The character Nu-Hatta is an important Moth Priest, which means he can read the Elder Scrolls. In the cited text, he briefly discusses the different gods who were alleged to have mortal origins. There's a pretty critical typo in The Imperial Library's version, so I'll requote it in this post:

This is extremely obscure and can be hard to understand, but the crucial line is towards the end, Tiber Septim became a god by "walk[ing] like them until they must walk like you." That is to say that his apotheosis was a sort of self-actualization, by his own willpower he became a god. He did not acquire it through some ancient ritual by which a greater power gifted the godhood to him from on high, he stepped up and built it for himself. So he did not receive Akatosh's divine blood so much as he made his own blood as divine as Akatosh's. In a certain sense, this can be seen as the democratizing of divinity: in America, we are told that anyone can be president, in Tamriel, anyone can be a god.

Thanks a lot.