i am kinda behind on the times and i was wonderin if someone could posts some links or otherwise tell me what these are? thanks for the help

http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/5th_era_loveletter.shtml.

Read it, then read http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1059299&view=findpost&p=15378555.

If there are parts you don't understand. Ask.

That isn't the Landfall he's looking for...

In my opinion the Infernal City and its "Landfall" aren't the actual destruction of Nirn the Loveletter seems to hint at, probably a precursor to something larger (Baan Dar is where my money would go). "When we were not Eighty and One but One" seems to speak of all races banding together and fleeing to the "New North" (Atmora reinhabitable?).

I despise the "terminator/star trek" time-warp bs and personally think no ones dodged a bullet here...no matter how many tears they shed for Morrowind...

...besides if things went down that way (as the book suggests) the Loveletter could never have been to begin with, now could it?

This is why time paradox's svck...

And the landfall is? Did it occur after Oblivion? And thank you for the help prowler i appreciate it.

I haven't read the Novel yet so I can't comment on the events in there.

The landfall the event against which the message of the Loveletter is set so it happend somewhere between now and the 5th Era. What exactly happened isn't directly made clear though it seems to have been cataclysmic.



This part of the Sermon is about Lie Rock, or the Ministory of Truth, it differers slightly from the http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/pilgrim_path.shtml. It's kept up by the love of the people for Vivec.

Not knowing love was what caused the landfall and Lie Rock is just about the only big chunk of Earth that can fall. So the event apears to be Lie Rock crashing into Vivec at it's original velocity.

One87xe I believe is referring to http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1059299&st=80&p=15443984&#entry15443984, which seems to state that the moon crashing into Vivec and the events of The Infernal City are not the Landfall mentioned in the Loveletter.

"I'm sorry, your Landfall is in another castle."

:turtle:

The Loveletter is a birthday present, political commentary on 911 and an explanation of the scripture of Love. It seems to be set against a cataclysmic background of landfall.

The Loveletter doesn't have to be a prediction about the future of the series.

The landfall as it is used in the Loveletter does not have to be same landfall in the Novels. Both can use the same concept of a cataclysmic event in a different context. This contrary to the implication of One87xe that there will be another Landfall or the implication that the Landfall in the Loveletter is not caused by Bar Dau.

But like I said, I can only comment on the Loveletter, not the Novel.

That would be the one



Not the only big chunk of Earth: "They are like the mortal plane in that they are temporal and subject to the bounds of mortality; in fact of this, the moons are dead and died long ago. The moons used to be pure white and featureless, but today their 'skin' is decaying and withering away. " from http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/cosmology.shtml.

Lorkhan reclaiming his heart would be a keen "hill-[censored] you!" and an awfully lovely show of destructive force, plus its kinda entianimorphish(sp?) since the moons could be the two "dudes" and the heart "the chick". Which fits most quasi-psuedo learnings around here *shrug*

Either Masser or Secunda would rend the world in its entirety I would assume. Every sentient race could be considered the 80+1 to 1 after the grand Landfall comes to pass...

Also: if even one single soul in Vivec City still had even an ounce of "love" for Vehk and his [censored] ways, wouldnt that render this whole fiasco obsolete? It's not really indicated that anyone (specifically) fell out of love with him to begin with, AFAIR. (I know its meant to refer to most of the Dunmer as a whole, but come on)

But if you believe Temple propaganda: "Overwhelmed by the courage and daring of Vivec, the moon Baar Dau swore itself to eternal service of the Tribunal and all its works."...you should probably try to get a refund on your Temple dues then, cause you just got hosed...

All this Landfall/End of times talk makes me think that TES is nearing its final end as a world and a franchise...


Edit: either the past was changed (which would render the Loveletter and its 5th era non-existant, since changing the past undeniably changes the future) or the best is yet to come, as far as Im concerned...

In the Sermons Vivec really has a knife on the throat of Vivec. I wouldn't discount the obvious for something implausible, though yet again I haven't read the Novel yet.

Here's another discussion though:





* Some pvssyr in the Dreamsleeve *

The two Landfalls are radically different from each other though: the Loveletter states that at some point in time all sentient races band together as one loose-knit family after a world-wiping act, an act that can't be as the Letter described it because we learn from the novel that only Morrowind seems to be effected by that particular tragedy, no mention of High Rock or Hammerfell...so how can the 80+1 become 1 if only one province is decimated? The two (novel, Loveletter) seem to contradict each other in a ton of places...which means either

A) The Loveletter is completely bogus

or

B) This Landfall is "Landfall" and renders the Loveletter null and void (at which point why would the Loveletter exist anyways, since the mega crisis it predicts will never come to pass, since the Loveletter and its time-travel switched everything up)

or

C) This "Landfall" (like I said earlier) isn't the actual end all Landfall as the Loveletter suggests, leaving something far more dangerous to make the Loveletters predictions come true

or

D) They took it all "2012" on us and the novel's "Landfall" is the spark that ignites the fire, thusly destroying the world as we know it and causing the Loveletters predictions to hold true

or...I could seriously go all the way to Z with the reasons why the novel and the Loveletter mock each other, Im still of the impression that the novels "Landfall" and the Letters Landfall are 2 very different things...any one of those may hold true or they may all be false...

This is why time travel svcks so much, since any number of infinites could come to pass...

Edit: aside from the "B" turning into a smiley face Im not exactly sure how time-travel got past the hand of Akatosh, since he's the one with his talons on the hourglass..."shaking him just so" probably? Though the Loveletter gives the hint that the "1" have mastered "dragon-shaking"(?)

You got that backwards: "Our lord is High Alma Jaroon, of House Jaroon, whose city is the First City of the New North, where all who Went Under from Landfall settled and made peace with the Worm, when we were not Eighty and One separate peoples but One". When landfall happened, they settled in the North and were One. Now, at the time of writing, much later, they are Eighty-One people. This suggest the Dunmer will become very fractured somewhere after the landfall.

Rather, Lie Rock's collision was a result of Landfall.

Is it possible that the Landfall of the Loveletter was lessened to the Landfall of the novel due to the sending of the Loveletter?

I dont see the backwards part, since I am assuming highly that the Loveletter spoke of Tamriel as a whole and not just the already fractured Dunmer, 80+1 seperate sentient races isn't outside possibility (Ten seperate playable races in game are already 1/8th of the equation...toss Imga, Sload and a host of other races in the pot and the math starts to figure)




Meh...Lie Rock didnt have the pop from the novel to rend the continent asunder, just Morrowind which the Argonians quickly overran...which is why I figure something bigger and better is going to come along




Possible but not very probable since (as Ive stated above) the "Landfall" mentioned in the novel doesnt convey the same sense of devastation that the Loveletter hints at, and had things been changed so radically the Loveletter may never have been in the first place...hence why time-travel is such a pain in the ass...

It says "...where all who Went Under from Landfall settled and made peace with the Worm, when we were not Eighty and One separate peoples but One." It says that they went under and made peace with the worm when they were One, read as "when we were still 'One' rather than 'Eighty and One' is when we went under". They went under as one, then they divided into Eighty and One.


Hoping for radical change would sorta be a point of sending the Loveletter, would it not?

This has got me thinking. In the novel, Keyes tells us that everybody on Umbriel was born a worm, and all appearances are superficial. If Vuhon succeeds in using the White-Gold tower to escape Vile's grasp, he'll be able to land Umbriel somewhere. Is it possible the Dunmer will form an alliance with Vuhon, who himself is a Dunmer, and he will land Umbriel and make it the "First City of the New North," Umbriel representing "The Worm?"

I could be way off, but I'm just throwing that out there.

The 81 to 1 mention is far to ambiguous to say anything for sure, most you if you seem to think that it is only for the Dunmer, and my train of thought thinks that notion is pure ridiculous...my opinion of course

If I send a letter to myself in the past telling me the exact day and time that i get in a car accident, then stay home on the day it's supposed to happen, the car accident can never be and the letter would never have been writen...since I have changed my own timeline to prevent those events from happening...same thing with the Loveletter...




The "Worm" capitalized (I assume) refers to the King of Worms, Mannimarco...my take on it...

The only problem with that is that he died in Oblivion... it'd be kind of hard to make an alliance with him now.

Heh, if you think that was the Mannimarco, then thats fine...I think he was a really terrible wanna-be on a power trip who got schooled in humility for trying to impersonate a God...

Due to the ancient "War of the Wormgod" my take on Mannimarco versus what we seen in-game is a joke in my eyes...a bad joke at that...

Whether or not it deals with just the Dunmer or not is beside the point, it says what it says, and it says that they were One when they went under. Who "they" are might be up for discussion, but whoever they were (whether only the Dunmer or all of Tamriel) they were one and became eighty and one - that part is clearly stated and is not ambiguous.

I'm not going to get into a discussion on the mechanics of time-travel or timelines. The mechanics of it on Nirn have not been mapped out and everything is purely theoretical, meaning neither one of us have any ground to base an argument on. I could just as easily argue that the letter simply creates a branch in the old timeline, making it so despite the event never occurring in the new timeline that the letter exists in it nonetheless. Or we could argue that fate is unavoidable and that not even sending the letter and you trying to avoid it would change anything, but its all just inane ramblings with no grounding, so please lets try and avoid it, we'll just come off looking like fools.

We can complain about Bethesda's (rather poor) in-game representation of Mannimarco all day long, but at the end of the day Mannimarco will still be dead. :shrug:

Until Bethesda comes out and says he isn't, he's dead.

He's a necromancer god, does killing him really mean anything at all? I mean, resurrection is sorta his thing...

@ Luagar: we'll agree to disagree then, since nothing time-travel wise has been stated one way or the other...the fact that there's an actual God of Time (yes, one that can be abused) adds an extra layer that most time-travelly mediums don't have...

@Anti: mayhap he is dead in your game...in mine, a one-shot to dead god just doesnt cut it...

Well it's part of a quest in the game to kill him, so he is supposed to be killed. But I understand that you think that wasn't him, or that he'll live again. I suppose we'll have to do what you did with Luagar and agree to disagree.

As in, Landfall=neglection to love, lead to a more specific event, like Morrowind's destruction. Landfall isn't lie rock's collision, but the sum of all that's wrong with Nirn and Dunmer.