Alrighty, well I'm coming up with ideas for a fan fic and I just wanted to get some things straight.

1. Was what Mankar Camoran said about Tamriel being an Oblivion realm? I've grabbed a quote from the wiki to help explain.


2. If Mehrunes Dagon did succeed in taking over Tamriel, would it end up looking like the planes of Oblivion? Something like http://www.uesp.net/w/images/images.new/c/cc/OB-Img-OblivionWorld1.jpg?

Am i the only one who like the idea of Lorkhan being a Daedra prince and Nirn a former Daedric realm? It satisfies one mystery but still leaves plenty more, such as are nirn inhabitants descendants of Daedra? (well, it makes me wonder anyway)

I remember in a previous thread someone dismissed mankar camoran's sppech as mad ramblings, is this the consensus among lore scholars?

Edit: I'm sick of my avatar already.

Camoran's speech is complete rubbisch....

anyway... you didn't asked question 1 well do you mean: What was....... or was what.......???
Tamriel isn't a realm of Oblivion... You should ignore Camoran's speech completely, as far as I know, he doesn't give any new correct lore in his whole speech.... The only explalation I can give to it other then that Bethesda didn't paid much attention to his speeches would be that he's tottaly mental ill.... like those cult leaders in texas....

anyway question 2:
Ever looked at an Oblivion gate? It's surrounded by red fiery skies, Oblivion plants, rocks and those strange hooks... So if Dagon conquered Tamriel the change would be big that Tamriel would eventually look like that...

It is quite commonly accepted that the planes of Oblivion and Nirn exist next to each other as all plains in the universe (forgot the specific name), with Nirn being a unique case.

Personally I doubt Mehrunes would have the power to "conquer" Nirn and make it as his second realm as manifestations in a plane that is not his own obviously ask for extensive rituals and a lot of power.
It's much more likely it would be consumed by his plain of Oblivion. You could notice the little offsprings of Oblivion entering the Nirn world (up to even some bloodgrass growing next to the gates). My guess is that there would be more and more gates opening between the two realms until the point they were actually connected and unified.

Question 2: If the Towers failed, then the creatia that composes the Mundus and all with in it would be leeched, unhindered, into Oblivion. I imagine it would sort of dissolve/disintegrate, and all the bonds and physical laws that the Earthbones created would unravel. Kind of like putting one of those biodegradable packing peanuts under running water.

Or the non-biodegradable ones in gasoline...

Back on Topic:
Question 1: I believe you left out the word "true". If so, he is incorrect as far as the lore can tell. In fact, I heavilly doubt that Bethesda expected the player to sit there through his ramblings (4/5 of my friends just went up to him and killed him. The other one used a spell.)

Question 2: I doubt that Nirn would turn into the Deadlands. I think Alaisiagae said it right where the land would dissolve, and it would become a vacant space with a whole lotta nothing, but at least the destroyer has his prize.

I think I can agree that Mankar Cammoran's speech is not true, most likely, it's just the rambling of a delusional madman. After all, anyone who would knowingly help a divine being whose sphere is destruction invade his own world can't be sane. That's sort of like burning down your own house while you're inside it, accept instead of fire you have a god and instead of a house you have the world.

As to the second question, I'm not too sure, all I can say is that it probably would be a very unpleasant experience to those living on Nirn, a lethal one as well, most likely.

Considering everything he said about the Heart of Lorkhan (and what happened in Morrowind), the part about Lorkhan being the Daedric Prince of Mundus seems plausible.

If you happen to think the world you're living in happens to be a prison, a reasonable proposition, then liberating yourself from it is actually quite sane.

Camoran's speech is rubbish, but it isn't entirely unfounded. He goes on the assumption that everything Padomaic is Daedric; but he forgets that Lorkhan helped create Nirn, so he is actually an Aedra. I suppose the speech sort of justifies itself by saying that Nirn is also Daedric, but it still doesn't quite work.



Oh, I think Mankar is sane. He didn't just help Dagon - the Mythic Dawn were necessary to open the Oblivion gates. The whole thing could have been his idea, and he definitely had a lot of power. Jearl's orders suggest that he was the commander of the Daedric forces, and that Dagon just gave him what he asked for.

His objectives were not to destroy the world, but to have mer, who ruled Tamriel in the Mythic Era, and the Daedra, like in the Dawn Era, on Nirn. The fact that he constantly made references to Ayleids, and could possibly be Ayleid, should make this pretty obvious, even if the name of the Mythic Dawn doesn't.

Actually, I was more thinking that there wouldn't even be a world left. It would entirely disintegrate, like what Masser and Secunda are doing. Speaking of which, is it only the Cosmology article in TIL that says the moons are decaying into shreds, or are there other in-game references that explain why parts of the moons disappear? :unsure:

Here is something to chew on, MD used to be a leaper demon king, who survived the kalpas by cutting corners. Alduin (akatosh) caught wind of this, and cursed him into MD, a being that if it wishes to go back to being the leaper demon king will have to destroy all of Mundus. Now, factor in a bunch of elves who view the world as a prison, and one elf who became a giant fanatic in that idea, and you got yourself the Mythic Dawn

But why would Akatosh do that? Didn't he know he'd cause a lot of pain and suffering on the Mundus? Or does Akatosh not want to be an Aedra, and manipulating MD means that if MD destroys the Mundus, Akatosh isn't bound to the Mundus anymore?

Reminds me of Lady Death - she overthrows Satan and he curses her to never be able to return to Earth while there is a single living Human on earth. So she recruits Evil Ernie to start Megadeath and wipe out all the humans on earth.

What were we talking about?

I was taking from the http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/aldudagga.shtml. You know, dragon of time, eats everything because that's what time does. Anywho, I was making a connection as to why MD wanting to destroy Mundus to go back to being a leaper demon king, while the Mythic Dawn was what I believe to be a bunch of fanatical elves also trying to go back the way things were before Mundus. It's the connection that both want to go back to the way things used to be before Mundus and therefore have the same goals, remove Mundus.

So the Nu-Mantia Intercept actually had something to do with the Mythic Dawn after all?

Dont know answer to question 1 but i think Nirn would like Molag bal's realm but Mehrunes would be in charge it wouldn't be very nice.

Molag Bal's realm is the minds of the terrified and the hopeless...he enjoys the looks of terror on mortal faces far too much to ever want to destroy them all.

Not to be technical, but that's a picture of the Deadlands, Dagon's realm of Oblivion. Just like the Shivering Isles is Sheogorath's realm of Oblivion.

But anyway, Mankar is (was) just a crazy old Altmer, fascinating, but insane. (And incorrect)


:D

Quite technically it's also the Pits and Attribution's Share.

Well, why?

Other than his cultist radical spouts of anger, the main core of things is that he thinks Mundus is a prison, and needs to be destroyed. And what better person to help destroy that prison than the prince of destruction himself. And if we are to believe that -most- mer think Mundus is a prison and they need to escape, they're no better than Mankar. Not trying to refute you here, proweler, just helping out those who have a knee-jerk reaction to think he's just plain nuts. Also, he does seem to have quite a bit of mannish thought in his messages, but he still hates Mundus and wants the 'prision' removed, and that is the merrish thought that trumps everything he said previously.

Because Tar-Meena says so, and she sounds like she knows her [censored].

Plus, Hellmouth's post explains pretty well too.

I would have to agree with prowler. Mankar goes after so many of our basic assumptions it becomes difficult to find an idea that can stand independent from those that he is attacking. The speech really seemed tailor made to cause everyone to begin to question all the assumptions of lore we had taken for granted.

I honestly think they put it in there just to confuse the hell out of us.

If its lorkhan's realm, it isn't occupied by anyone but mortals. Mankar shouldn't have fought the lofty shadows of his dead ancestors, but fought, as Umaril should have, that which proped them up.

The only tower that is truly needed to hold Nirn together, according to what we know, is Adamantine Tower. The rest (excluding Red Tower) were built by the Elves to shape the lands as they saw fit, in imitation of Adamantine. With Red Tower down, White Gold Tower has become more important than ever before.