[Juan Cerda]

If the Hist were numerous before the oceans covered the world, why did they only manage to stay in Argonia? Or is it possible they exist on other continents?

The Hist may not just be on other continents, but in other realms as well. The Infernal City, once part of Clavicus Vile's realm, is descibed by the book's Argonian character to have trees that, while not being the Hist, are closely related. And since we know that Hist trees can be uprooted and planted elsewhere, just like any plant, I'm sure many an intrepid adventurer, herbologist, or con-man has moved the Hist around. Only thing is, they don't tend to survive too long disconnected from their fellows.

[Joanne]

It was next on Alessia Ottus' to complain-about-condescendingly list.

That's probably why I keep running into her on the roads. She can't find the place to dis it.

[jeremey wisor]

The Ehlnofey are said to be the shared ancestors of beasts and mer and men. The hist are the only other beings besides the Ehlnofey at that point?

Yip.

The men and the mer branches of the Ehlnofey further evolved over time into the sub-races. But do the beast races also share a common ancestor in the sense that all elves descend from Aldmer? Are beast races "sub-races" of an Aldmer equivalent in their evolutionary line?

Yip.
During the early Merethic Era, the aboriginal beastpeoples of Tamriel -- the ancestors of the Khajiit, Argonian, Orcish, and other beastfolk -- lived in preliterate communities throughout Tamriel. - Before the Ages of Man
Also,

[Additional information from Okan-Shei, the Argonian Savant.]
Betmeri, or 'Beastmen,' were the aboriginal inhabitants of Tamriel. Each Beast race has its own distinctive accounts of the mythic era before the coming of Elves and Men; [nowadays] each Beast race is as culturally and physically distinct from one another as it is from Elven and Manish races. - http://www.imperial-library.info/content/savants-notes-vvardenfell

So, betmeri have their own "Aldmer equivalent" in terms of evolution.

Why do the Hist not change over time as the Ehlnofey did?

The may simply do not want to do so. Or they do not need to evolve. Or their evolution may be far slower than the "quick" evolution of the Ehlnofey races. Millions of years or something when compared to thousands needed by Aldmeri and Betmeri.

Is there a distinction between the intelligent beast races and the basic beasts like boars, wolves, etc?

Of course! Animals can't speak! ^_^

Are they part of what is meant by "Earth Bones?"

I seriously doubt that.
More about the Ehlnofey and the Earth Bones: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ehlnofey

Where did all the water/oceans come from when the Ehlnofey wars covered the otherwise all earth planet? Are there lost ruins and artifacts at the bottom of the ocean?

I don't think there were no oceans at all. Do you mean their "memories" about gargantuan cities which covered the whole plane(t)?

If the Hist were numerous before the oceans covered the world, why did they only manage to stay in Argonia? Or is it possible they exist on other continents?

I'm afraid we do not know [yet].

2) The Khajiit are said to have once been Bosmer

No, they don't.

and the Argonians are directly related to the Hist

No, they don't.

[Amanda savory]

No, they don't.

No, they don't.

What's the problem? The Khajiit are certainly speculated to have descended from Bosmer, whether it's true or not. I don't know if it's true, but it is said.
And the Argonians have an undeniable relationship with the Hist. They even consider themselves to be Hist (although I suppose that could be put down to cultural and linguistic confusion).

[Vickytoria Vasquez]

What's the problem? ... linguistic confusion

Maybe that's the problem.

[Hairul Hafis]

One thing for sure, I'd say the argonians are the odd man out when it comes to the original ancestor. Now if only we can find out how they were created by the Hist. Either they were local fauna that were morhped into the beings today, or the Hist homemade them.

[c.o.s.m.o]

No, they don't.

No, they don't.

And Azurah came to her and said, "Poor Nirni, stop your tears. Azurah makes for you a gift of a new people." And Nirni stopped weeping, and Azurah spoke the First Secret to the Moons and they parted and let Azurah pass. And Azurah took the forest people who were torn between man and beast, and she placed them in the best desserts and forests on Nirni. And Azurah in her wisdom made them of many shapes, one for every purpose. And Azurah named them Khajiit and told them her Second Secret and taught them the value of secrets. And Azurah left and spoke the Third Secret to the Lunar Lattice and bound the Khajiit to the Lattice, as is proper for Nirni's secret defenders. Then Azurah spoke the Third Secret again, and the Moons shone down on the marshes and their light became sugar.

But Y'ffer heard the First Secret and snuck in behind Azurah. And Y'ffer could not appreciate secrets, and he told Nirni of Azurah's trick. And Nirni made the deserts hot and the sands biting. And Nirni made the forests wet and filled with poisons. And Nirni thanked Y'ffer and let him change the forest people also. And Y'ffer did not have Azurah's subtle wisdom, so Y'ffer made the forest people Elves always and never beasts or trees. And Y'ffer named them Bosmer. And from that moment they were no longer in the same litter as the Khajiit.

The Khajiit and the Bosmer are descended from the same proto-people.

[Jade Barnes-Mackey]

What's the problem? The Khajiit are certainly speculated to have descended from Bosmer, whether it's true or not.

Yeah, you said it. "Speculated".

And the Argonians ... even consider themselves to be Hist.

No, they don't. You can prove your words?

One thing for sure, I'd say the argonians are the odd man out when it comes to the original ancestor. Now if only we can find out how they were created by the Hist. Either they were local fauna that were morhped into the beings today, or the Hist homemade them.

Maybe they were changed by the Hist.

Words of Clan mother Ahnissi to her Favored Daughter

Ah, such a lovely myth But I have quoted scientific sources.

The Khajiit and the Bosmer are descended from the same proto-people.

Of course. We call them... ELHNOFEY. Or maybe even et'Ada.

No, they don't. You can prove your words?

Maybe they were changed by the Hist.

They believe themselves to be connected to the Hist, at least. There is a lot of info about the Argonians in the Infernal City.http://www.imperial-library.info/content/infernal-city

Ah, such a lovely myth But I have quoted scientific sources.

[Siobhan Wallis-McRobert]

Ah, such a lovely myth But I have quoted scientific sources.

:rofl: Criticizing the myths and legends in a world where there is no scientific explanation for the birth of the world. Hilarious. In a world where the Flesh of a dead god hangs suspended over the sky, where Gates to oblivion are opened with specially prepared Morpholiths harvested from Oblivion with the assistance of Daedric spirits, you are criticizing the words of Clan Mother Ahnissi for being a "myth" and thus not reliable? That is utterly preposterous.

[Cat]

They believe themselves to be connected to the Hist, at least.

Yes, they are. That would be correct. But they are not Hist.

Myths are true in the Elder Scrolls universe.

ALL myths at the same time? Even the controversial ones? Mythopoeic forces have their limits.

Also, there are breeds of Khajiit that look almost exactly like Bosmer to the point where they were attacked by one Pelinal Whitestrake, who didn't like mer because he was the Shezarrine.

It was mistake, you know? That proves nothing. Pelinal was short-tempered, he wouldn't wait until the genetic expertise would be made.
And IRL dolphins "look exactly" as fish. But they are mammals. "Look exactly" is not the evidence nor proof.
Periyte looks exactly as Akatosh, but he is not.

:rofl: Criticizing the myths and legends in a world where there is no scientific explanation for the birth of the world. Hilarious. In a world where the Flesh of a dead god hangs suspended over the sky, where Gates to oblivion are opened with specially prepared Morpholiths harvested from Oblivion with the assistance of Daedric spirits, you are criticizing the words of Clan Mother Ahnissi for being a "myth" and thus not reliable? That is utterly preposterous.

Such a loud words. Atmorans are nedic people according to myths. But they are not, according to archeological evidence (and to MK's words). Science can be true even in the Elder Scrolls.

Okay.

Criticizing the myths and legends in a world where there is no scientific explanation for the birth of the world.

I'm sure the Imperial savants have their theories. And you know when the history of Earth was studied IRL? Of course not in the Middle Ages.

In a world where the Flesh of a dead god hangs suspended over the sky

If the Cosmology is right, you can see stars through moons? The people in Tamriel are not all-knowing.

you are criticizing the words of Clan Mother Ahnissi for being a "myth" and thus not reliable?

No, this myth could be reliable in terms of the origin of gods. But the evolution of races is scientific question, not mythological.

[Channing]

Yes, they are. That would be correct. But they are not Hist.

But they believe they were created by them.

ALL myths at the same time? Even the controversial ones? Mythopoeic forces have their limits.

Yes. All of them. Even the ones that contradict each other. The creation myths at least. Time was not linear during the Dawn Era, so all the myths are true in the same way all the endings of Daggerfall happened.

It was mistake, you know? That proves nothing. Pelinal was short-tempered, he wouldn't wait until the genetic expertise would be made.
And IRL dolphins "look exactly" as fish. But they are mammals. "Look exactly" is not the evidence nor proof.

Yes, it was a mistake which is why he backed off after finding out. And the myth is proof enough.

[Marie]

But they believe they were created by them.

Again? They believe, but they are not Hist.

Yes. All of them. Even the ones that contradict each other. The creation myths at least. Time was not linear during the Dawn Era, so all the myths are true in the same way all the endings of Daggerfall happened.

Oh no, the Warp in the West was the Dragon Break. It is another story and of course not myth.

Yes. All of them.

Well prove it

Yes, it was a mistake which is why he backed off after finding out.

So he found out they are not of Aldmeri origin? That means they are not the descendants of Bosmer.

[Sarah Evason]

Yes, they are. That would be correct. But they are not Hist.

Right, they call themselves 'People of the Root.' They're known as Argonians, their elven sobriquet, to the rest of the world.

ALL myths at the same time? Even the controversial ones? Mythopoeic forces have their limits.

What limits are these? Is Mythopoeia limited from controversy?

But the evolution of races is scientific question, not mythological.

You assume the existence of evolution? Why did you conclude this?

[Stu Clarke]

Again? They believe, but they are not Hist.

But they were created by Hist.

Oh no, the Warp in the West was the Dragon Break. It is another story and of course not myth.

Dragon Breaks are similar to what it was like during the Dawn Era, with non-linear time.

Well prove it

It's the same reason why we get Akatosh, Auriel, and Alduin. All of them are the same god, but they are different. Akatosh is a preserver, and protects Mundus. Auriel seeks to escape from the prison created by Lorkhan, while Alduin seeks to end the kalpa.

Basically, during the Dawn Era different groups experienced the same event, but their views caused them to see it differently.

So he found out they are not of Aldmeri origin? That means they are not the descendants of Bosmer.

No, he found out they are no longer mer. They still come from Aldmer.

[REVLUTIN]

Right, they call themselves 'People of the Root.' They're known as Argonians, their elven sobriquet, to the rest of the world.

And Saxhleel are what they are calling themselves. Or at least one of their tribes.

What limits are these? Is Mythopoeia limited from controversy?

Nope. It presents the controversy. Limits are the will of developers.

You assume the existence of evolution? Why did you conclude this?

Me? No, not me:

The men and the mer branches of the Ehlnofey further evolved over time into the sub-races. But do the beast races also share a common ancestor in the sense that all elves descend from Aldmer? Are beast races "sub-races" of an Aldmer equivalent in their evolutionary line?

The Khajiit are certainly speculated to have descended from Bosmer

But if you ask me, I think that evolution is present in TES. Both Bosmer and Altmer (and Chimer) are evolved from Aldmer, and they are distinct from them. Both Aldmer and Nedics (and Yokudans) are evolved from Ehlnofey, but they are all distinct.
But I suppose the evolution in TES is quite different from real-life evolution. Maybe it's the Aurbis or something else that influence on the evolution so it goes much faster.

But they were created by Hist.

No, we don't know exactly. They may be changed by the Hist from some original species.

Dragon Breaks are similar to what it was like during the Dawn Era, with non-linear time.

The Dawn Era was something [super]natural, when the Dragon Breaks are malfunction. They are not exactly the same.

It's the same reason why we get Akatosh, Auriel, and Alduin. All of them are the same god, but they are different. Akatosh is a preserver, and protects Mundus. Auriel seeks to escape from the prison created by Lorkhan, while Alduin seeks to end the kalpa.

First of all, Akatosh is Lorkhan (or Shezarr if you want). So preserver is Lorkhan, but not the other gods (Alduin the World-Eater, or Auriel). But I don't know why are you telling about it.

Basically, during the Dawn Era different groups experienced the same event, but their views caused them to see it differently.

But Khajiits didn't knew about the existance of mer other than Bosmer. So then they are talking about Bosmer it their myth, they mean "elves". And by "elves" they mean the progenitors of all elves, the Ehlnofey, from who other sentient races were descent.

No, he found out they are no longer mer. They still come from Aldmer.

From Ehlnofey you mean. Beastmen already were in Tamriel when Aldmeri came to it.

Please read about them: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ehlnofey

[Michael Korkia]

The Dawn Era was something [super]natural, when the Dragon Breaks are malfunction. They are not exactly the same.

I said "similar." No idea how you got exactly from that. Time was not linear during the Dawn Era, like during a Dragon Break.

First of all, Akatosh is Lorkhan (or Shezarr if you want). So preserver is Lorkhan, but not the other gods (Alduin the World-Eater, or Auriel). But I don't know why are you telling about it.

Yes, I know they are both the same. Shor the Space God is connected to Auriel the Time God. But I was talking about the Time side, and how mortal worship causes it to manifest differently. For example, though both are the Dragon God of Time, Akatosh might plot against Alduin. Because mortal belief causes both to manifest.

Edit: Never mind this one. I misread the post, it's the mantlers that can affect the gods.

But Khajiits didn't knew about the existance of mer other than Bosmer. So then they are talking about Bosmer it their myth, they mean "elves". And by "elves" they mean the progenitors of all elves, the Ehlnofey, from who other sentient races were descent.

Do they? Or do they know their history better than some Imperial scholar?

From Ehlnofey you mean. Beastmen already were in Tamriel when Aldmeri came to it.

No, I mean Aldmer. Before The Ages of Man also says orcs were in Tamriel, too. But the orcs are from Aldmer who were turned into orcs when Trinimac got eaten by a Daedric Prince. So your "scientific" book is wrong.

Please read about them: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ehlnofey

Don't use UESP as a source.

[Abel Vazquez]

Nope. It presents the controversy. Limits are the will of developers.

Agreed. :hehe:

[Rik Douglas]

Do orcs have their own providence ?

[Bellismydesi]

Do orcs have their own providence ?

No, but they have their own city in High Rock.

[Judy Lynch]

No, but they have their own city in High Rock.

Thank you i have always wanted to know if they did or not.

[Michelle davies]

I said "similar." No idea how you got exactly from that. Time was not linear during the Dawn Era, like during a Dragon Break.

Are we talking about myths?

Yes, I know they are both the same. Shor the Space God is connected to Auriel the Time God. But I was talking about the Time side, and how mortal worship causes it to manifest differently. For example, though both are the Dragon God of Time, Akatosh might plot against Alduin. Because mortal belief causes both to manifest.

Ok. Now what?

Do they? Or do they know their history better than some Imperial scholar?

The know myths. And history is subject of scholars. Myths =/= History.

No, I mean Aldmer. Before The Ages of Man also says orcs where in Tamriel, too. But the orcs are from Aldmer who were turned into orcs when Trinimac got eaten by a Daedric Prince. So your "scientific" book is wrong.

You mean Orsimer. Orsimer were sect of Aldmeri who were turned into the form of orcs. And orcs were present in Tamreil at this moment. They were relatives of goblins, as other sources say. But Orsimer are certainly not related to goblins.
So "wild" orcs and Orsimer are different species. But look similar.

[Spaceman]

Are we talking about myths?

Ok. Now what?

Alduin is just as real as Akatosh, even though their roles are completely different. The Nordic myths about Alduin eating kalpas to bring the next are just as real as the Imperial's about Akatosh, who protects Shezarr's creation. So both manifest.

The know myths. And history is subject of scholars. Myths =/= History.

Not in the Elder Scrolls. They are connected.

You mean Orsimer. Orsimer were sect of Aldmeri who were turned into the form of orcs. And orcs were present in Tamreil at this moment. They were relatives of goblins, as other sources say. But Orsimer are certainly not related to goblins.
So "wild" orcs and Orsimer are different species. But look similar.

No, the "orcs are related to goblins" idea is a racist concept from people who wanted the orcs all dead. It's false information.

It's why they are enemies in Arena and Daggerfall. They were being hunted as monsters.

[Sylvia Luciani]

Alduin is just as real as Akatosh, even though their roles are completely different. The Nordic myths about Alduin are just as real as the Imperial's about Akatosh. So both manifest.

No one was arguing against this.

Not in the Elder Scrolls. They are connected.

As they are in the real life. Connected and correlated to some point, but they are not the same!

No, the "orcs are related to goblins" idea is a racist concept from people who wanted the orcs all dead. It's false information.

Why?

It's why they are enemies in Arena and Daggerfall. They were being hunted as monsters.

If all the myths are true, then both versions are possible. And my theory is the third version - orcs and Orsimer are different.

[neil slattery]

As they are in the real life. Connected and correlated to some point, but they are not the same!

They are in the Elder Scrolls.

Why?

They didn't like orcs, so they made stuff up to make them seem like monsters. They were ugly people who didn't have a home, and were thus thought of as savages who would be better off dead.

If all the myths are true, then both versions are possible. And my theory is the third version - orcs and Orsimer are different.

But it's not a Dawn Era myth. It's racist propaganda.