Why thank you sir. And, without being sycophantic for the sake of reciprocity, I really do agree with pretty much all you said in your post as well. I often do, actually. lol. :foodndrink:

You uhhh... you guys got something going on here? You wanna tell the forum? :hubbahubba:

The poll is poorly worded IMO. I look forward to joining the DB during my first playthrough, and I will probably never play a "righteous" character, but I clicked on the "yes" option.

I hope that there will be at least a few feuding factions in Skyrim that require the PC to choose which side to support.

Ideally, I'd love to see the ability to fully commit to that choice and help your faction-mates completely wipe out the opposing faction. Whether it means helping the DB destroy the Morag Tong, or helping the College of Whispers to burn down the Temple of Synod, etc.



that reminds me of http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-cheaters-guide-to-winning-online-arguments/

Well... at least you made it through that one without mentioning necromancers.

I think yours is the point that many of us have been driving toward. The notion of the game explicitly stating that this group is evil and that one is good is troubling at best, but the possibility of the player making such a distinction (either way) and going on a crusade against whichever faction s/he might wish, or joining a faction that goes on such a crusade, or pretty much anything else in that vein, could only add to the game.


Meh.... I was once accused of being eight different posters on another board. You'll have to do better than that.

The vote that adds more content is a win...nuff said.

Sadly this content isn't free, it takes money so...? If they could they would do something along these lines if it meant more fun! I would love to be able to go clean house on another guild especially if they made it personal. Side quests to get it going then option to go full on DB slayer. If bethesda wanted to they could make it so the other paths would not be cut off. I may change my mind and want to change my life after my horse pinky died. I must kill...all and go visit the local brother.

My character would join the Thieves Guild (if it's mostly good like in Oblivion) but I'd love to go after the Dark Brotherhood.

That link is evil. EVIL!

Actually just read the entire thing. Quite hilarious, I must say.

HA HA HA HA HA!

Why thank you, fellow community member. I must say I often enjoy your hilarious and very insightful posts as well.

Danger Dan is a genius! (wink)

I couldn't vote a full yes as you've got it. But I would like some form of it, there's no need to wipe out or arrest all of them. But a number of quests where you may come into conflict with some of them, or a faction that is opposed to the dark brotherhood and has quite a bit of tension between the two would be cool. Technically in an open world you should have the option of killing them all if you want anyway. Just that in Oblivion a lot of them were essential and couldn't be killed.

I agree with you, I remember when Lucien first asked me to kill him, I felt bad having to kill an old man, until I talked to him and found out what he did, then I killed him without remorse, and killing the Gray Fox would be cruel, all he wants is to get back his old life with his wife.

Of course in an ideal world, you would have different, independent thieves' guilds, in different cities or holds, each with differing moralities, to be discovered by the player, and leaving you wit a choice of how to deal with them individually.

That'd be an awesome beginning. In general anytime the characters of the world seek out the PC, instead of the usual other way around, it brings the world more to life.

If you were role playing a character who didn't know any of that, then it's not really so evil. Just because YOU (the player) know those things, doesn't mean your character knows anything about any of it.

Urm that's the kinda thing you have a spoiler alert for there at the end. If someone was playing thieve's guild for the first time and read that, you just ruined the whole thing for them.

Thanks everyone for the thoughts.

I admit, the wording/options of my poll are lacking. I like having exaggerated answers in addition to more rational, mild ones, and all of them are extreme except one "Don't Care" and one "No." I wasn't thinking and didn't include an unexaggerated "Sure."

In the discussion we've hit on the main idea: this poll started when I remembered I wished I could quest against the specific factions listed, but what we've all realized is that the poll should have simply been "Should there exist questlines against factions, and not only in them?" (focusing on interaction of organizations) with my particular selections given as an example. It seems we have all agreed that such interactions would be desirable. The kingdom coming down on the DB would be much more fathomable than the DB wanting the Fighters' Guild extinct, however. To remedy this, maybe have an organization that simply wants to upset society that would target the FG or MG, or maybe an anarchist group that thinks those guilds are too involved with the government.

Anyway, I'll try to word things better next time.

Didn't the Fighters guild in Morrowind have you kill the Master theif? I can't remember exactly, but I felt like Morrowind made you choose your allegiances a lot more and made the faction quests have more bearing on the world. I personally like being master of everything eventually like in OB, but if not I just hope that the tension between factions feels real and not just contrived to force you down one path or the other.

Though I think this is all a moot point. The whole new classless system is supposed to make your character more general/based on your exact play style. If anything I think Skyrim is moving even MORE in the OB direction with allowing you to do everything.

And yes, I know you have to "specialize" with perks, but if the perks are anything even remotely like the ones in fallout, yes, the perks provide that cutting edge to any skill, but in the end getting your skill up to 100 is still 80% of its power, the perks just add on that little extra boost that make your skills legendary. But I think were gonna find a lot more players maxing out all skills and just generally being good at everything, which I'm not particularily fond of...

I like the option of being good at everything available if I just understand the game mechanics/put in enough planning and effort like OB, but I don't want that to become default, and judging from what I gleam from the Todd interviews, it may be inching a little closer in that direction. I hope I'm wrong, and there's evidence I am, but in the end only time will tell

You just reminded me of how deplorable and vile it is that I can join a guild dedicated to slaughter and yet cannot visit a brothel. What the hell is this world coming to?! :banghead: :swear: :flame:

Should they be wiped out? In both MW and OB it kinda seemed like they were needed and performed a necessary service, even for the Crown on occation.

I don't like the idea of any group being completely annhilated, as in anyone ever associated with or interested in it dies. . . but I do like the idea of being able to severely cripple and handicap an organization that you oppose. I.E. Kill, exile or imprison the leader, siexe or destroy the major fortresses and meeting places, capture or kill the organizations higher ups. . . basically destabalize it to the point where it won't be operational again any time soon.

I think the option should be there for those who want it, but i probably wouldn't do it.

Even when i play a good character in Oblivion, i always join the Dark Brotherhood because the quests are fun; Whodunit? is probably the best quest in Oblivion. Maybe Bethesda could add in another guild who directly oppose the DB, so you would have to choose one or the other (which might limit RP a bit) that way people who dislike the Dark Brotherhood could kill them but at the same time they have another guild to join.

Is it obligatory to put obnoxious sentences instead of Yes or No?

The point hes making I believe is if we want to kill a whole guld or a certain person with the person we are roleplaying we should be able to do so. There should be quests for every side whether you view their through your characters eyes morally right or not. Its about adding quests that allow for more ways than 2 or so to be done. Should we have had a questline to side with the Black wood comapny? I think so. Should we have had a choice to side with necromancers? I would have liked to with some characters.

That what lacked in Oblivion. Something that goes against the guilds. Like the Necromancers against the Mages, Blackwood against the Fighters, the imperials against the Thieves and the Dark Brotherhood. Once in that path you stay in it. Or another way to join in the brotherhood through the imperial legion by putting a plant within them which a plant have do a murder join and wreck their plans. Undercover. Or the Dark Brotherhood put a plant in the legion.

There's no "Black and white". While the Dark Brotherhood is often painted as antithesis to good, especially in Morrowind, where you don't get to explore them as more than cannon fodder, in Oblivion, you learn that many of the people are sympathetic characters with little options elsewhere. In one of the few moments that Oblivion shines in terms of character depth, writing and atmosphere, the early Dark Brotherhood quests, leading up to the eventual right of purity, through slaughtering your fellow guildmates gets you invested in these individuals, more so than any other guild in the game. I still have a hard time going through with the killings. Other guilds have their one or two interesting characters (The Champion of the Fighter's guild for example) but no other actually made you care about the faction as a whole, the same way. Really, not even Morrowind managed to inject that into all their guilds, as well as those first few Dark Brotherhood missions.

All things considered about the Dark Brotherhood, it's not the organization that's evil, but as assassins, they were merely tools. Do you blame the gun for a murder? Or blame the person wielding the gun? As they say, Sh*t rolls downhill.

The Thieve's guild in Oblivion was good, but a little too Cause-oriented for my tastes. As good as the quests were, it always felt like nothing more than an Audition to become the thief king, rather than just joining the guild, and slowly coming to the attention of the higher-ups. This just stems back from the overall issue with pacing Oblivion had, and this isn't a discussion for that. More on topic, the Cause-oriented thieve's guild are no less heroes than the fighter's or mage's guilds. Perhaps even more so, as killing people is discouraged through the "Blood price".

Instead of opposing guilds (Fighter's V. Blackwood. Mage's V. Necromancers) to be "Good and evil", I'd rather see the internal dynamics of guild struggles resolved "Internally". As they were in Morrowind. You had many paths of advancement, and many paths towards the conclusion. In the Fighter's guild, you could ally yourself with Percius Mercius, and kill all of the pro Cammona Tong stewards. Or, you could instigate the conclusion a different way, by going the ambitious brown-noser, and performing all the Less-than-reputable extortion, bounty and manipulatory quests offered by Sjoring's champion, or Sjoring himself.

And what horrible crime did Perennia Draconis commit? Or Baenlin? Or Adamus Phillida?

The DB didn't kill Rufio because he was a rapist. They killed him because they got paid to. There is nothing morally ambiguous about the dark brotherhood. They kill for profit and for fun. They are less Dexter Morgan and more Anton Chigurh.

What I would like to see is the opportunity to join the Legion or some other group in an attempt to bring the DB to justice. Perhaps even the opportunity to infiltrate the organization Donnie Brasco style and gather evidence against them.