You'll have to forgive my lack of knowledge as I haven't played the two original Fallouts in quite sometime, but the Enclave attempted genocide on the population of the Mainland of America. Twice.

I suppose if Autumn's logic was used in Fallout 3 then they wouldn't have been too bad, but even so it would still be a pretty black and white decision between the Enclave and East Coast Brotherhood of Steel.

There are already topics about this. Yes people like the Enclave. It does not make then bad people or followers of the people in the 1940s with brown shirts that started WW2. Its just a game.

Why are so many people fans of the BoS? They play little to No role in FO1, FO2, FO New Vegas?

Yes, I noticed the amount of topics on the Enclave after posting this. I kind of feel stupid now. Perhaps I should spruce mine up with a random poll?

It is, actually, a bit surprising that there are so many Enclave supporters.


It's a strange thing, to not be alone in what I had expected would be a wildly unpopular point of view. How could I condone genocide? How could I stand up for the wickedness of men like dike Richardson, or the madness that was John Henry Eden? To discover that not only was my point of view not unique... but that there were others who would rush in to defend it when challenged... has filled me with a great sense of pride and joy.

I do not profess to know why each who has taken up with the Enclave does so...

... but I do know that the choice is nowhere near as black and white as you think.

In my opinion the Brotherhood of Steel are in every way the better solution for the Capital Wasteland. I like the Enclave's attitude of all rules out the window, but genocide is a bit too far. And if you insist on calling something "The Final Solution" make f'cking sure it's final.

I hope in future Fallouts the Enclave under Augustus Autumn change their plan to just controlling them. The Enclaves plan in FO3 was not going to kill everyone in the world but it was just a copy of FO2s plan on a much smaller scale.

Topics like this always boil down to why do you support genocide? Its a game different world, different mindset, different Morallity. It comes down to the Greater Good. Which the Enclave believe. They want to rebuild America, just they see everyone in the wasteland as impure.

Everyones hands in Fallout are bloody, followers of the apocalypse being the only exception I can see.

"People say evil prevails when good people do nothing. What they should say is, evil pevails."

Well that's exactly what you have... an opinion.


In my opinion... the Enclave are the better solution for America. Not the 'Capital Wasteland'... not the blasted remains of civilization... but for the United States of America.

I already live in a nation in which there is a shadow government... only that shadow government is the -actual- government, and most of us go along with our daily lives without giving it a second thought. I love my country, and the rights it provides me, and I would willingly serve to whatever ends were necessary in order to protect and defend the place I call home. In that mentality, the Enclave and I are of the same mind.

In practice... I would challenge the Enclave's definition of 'human' and 'mutant'.

I am of the mind that it is more important to destroy the MUTATION... not kill the one suffering it. With advanced medical science and some of the best scientific minds left in the world... who better than the Enclave to provide the medication and supplies necessary to put an end to the ravages of radiation and disease? The Brotherhood of Steel? Assuming that Lyon's little band of White Knights didn't get completely eradicated by the Super Mutants... what are the chances that the West Coast Brotherhood are really going to let him continue doing things the way he wants?

What are the chances that, after Lyons is dead and his daughter has passed... three or four generations down the line... that same benevolent spirit is going to be preserved? The mentality that helping people is more important than technology is not universal within the East Coast Brotherhood. Furthermore, BoS soldiers almost always shoot ghouls and Super Mutants on sight, no questions asked.

How does that make them any better an alternative? They're equally as violent... and equally as short-sighted as the Enclave under Eden's authority... and as has been said before, they even drive of Dr. Li after getting their hands on Project Purity. Then they run the whole operation into the ground focusing more on fighting the Enclave than securing the caravans.

I don't see where the decision is Black and White... save in that siding with Eden would be absolute lunacy. After all, he intends to kill -you- too with that toxic water.

I don't support the madness. I don't support the genocide.

I support the willingness to conquer and kill and fight and take whatever is needed... at whatever the cost... to restore the nation to rightful order.


War... it's bloody, and ugly, and hell.

And war... war never changes.

(Sorry... couldn't resist!)

You'll have to forgive my utter and complete support for the Enclave but......

While you may see it as "How the hell can anyone support these genocidal evil little jerks." I see it as "how the hell can you not?"

These are the main reasons I support the Enclave:

1. Whats in a name?: Personally their title "The Enclave" brillantly sums up something I love about them. The fact that they are indeed an enclave, in the defintion of the word, which means that they are a isolated group in the midst of a "whole lotta other crap" (thats the technical term for the wasteland btw). The fact that they are isolationist is one thing that drew me to them. Their strategy, in my view, is amazing. They sit back and work on building their strength while waiting for the opportune moment to strike when everyone else is fighting and weaking each other. Brillant.

2. Technology and Military Power: They are without a doubt the most advanced faction in the game universe. Their ability to develop and create new weapons, defenses, robots, and even the only aircraft in the world (the Verti-birds) makes me feel like I'm supporting a faction that knows what its doing in terms of actually being able to rebuild the ruined wastes. While others sit in squalor and twiddle their thumbs like morons (looking at you BoS), the Enclave has tech that they could never even come close to matching.

Their military strength is also something that is a sight to behold. As I said before, they are the only faction with the ability to have air-superiority and advanced logistics and mobility. Lets face it, had Lyon's or the Chosen one not been aided by bad writing, there is no real way that either of them would have succeeded in defeating the Enclave. (orbital strike targeting the citadel). Their advanced techonolgy also factors into their strength as a military. They are the sole (I would guess besides any pre-war ones) source of plasma rifles and plasma based weaponry in the wasteland. Maybe not necessarily in the west (plasma in Fallout 1), but the East for certain. They are able to arm even the lowest ranked of their soldiers with a least a lazer rifle and Advanced Power Armor and their strongest with Hellfire armor and an incinerator. Not even the high and mighty Brotherhood that everyone seems to like so much can match this, not even by a long shot. I also don't see their "lack of numbers" as a weakness. Indeed in some ways I see it as a strength.

3. Stars and Stripes Forever: They are without a doubt the United States of America. The Enclave of the United States of America is not just a fancy title you know. I like how the Enclave are also related to COG (Continuty of Government) plans and how they retain control over pre-war bases and bunkers (Raven Rock and Adams AFB for example).

4. Destroy, Rebuild, and Renew: Contrary to what alot of people seem to think. The Enclave aren't in the buisness of genocide for the fun of it. They are restoring the old world by removing what they see as a grave threat to the future of the human race, mutants (and are they wrong in this?) Now to make something clear, I AM NOT A NAZI. Nor from, what I can see, are there any other Enclave supporters here that are Nazis. We just truly feel that the "ends justify the means" in this case. Currently I would say that there are two camps though in the Enclave supporters. One that condones the genocide tactics and the other which is more like "Autumn's views". Personally I wouldn't mind it if the Enclave gave up on the whole "Kill everyone" tactic but I'll continue to support them if they don't.

Well I too support the Enclave, it's just that they blew their chances to be anything significant with all that genocide crap and their subsequent defeats. That being said, when civilisation IS finally restored, what will happen to all the mutants? Maybe the Enclave were on the right track about them....

Enclave, Legion, OR DEATH!!!!!

If Fallout 3 was your first exposure to the Fallout series I can understand why you would back the Enclave. The Capital Wasteland is a dump. It's overrun by monsters, violent psychopaths and slavers and the few oases of civilized humanity left seem totally incapable of doing anything besides barely clinging on despite having two centuries to rebuild. The Enclave's solution, while certainly drastic, has considerable merit if that is the situation you're faced with.

However I feel if you played Fallout 2 first there is very little reason to like the Enclave (hence the lack of Enclave fanboyism back in the day although it could be I just don't remember it). In Fallout 2 the area you travel in is far from sunshine and roses but humanity is definitely thriving and rebuilding. You get to meet ghouls and super mutants who are tolerant, civilized, nice people. In Fallout 2 the Enclave plan is nothing less than thoroughly abhorrent and completely unjustifiable and if you know what the Enclave represents and what's happening in the West by the time you meet them in Fallout 3 you're likely to retain that view.

For first time players, however, supporting the Enclave is pretty understandable.

You're a disgrace to the Glory of Rome. Baro.

The Enclave as an organization is despicable, in my opinion, but I do recognize that not all of their members were bastards, which was pretty clear in New Vegas.

The Enclave are, again, a bunch of fascist idiots who try to commit mass genocide twice over a butt-hurt encounter with some Super-Mutants and fail both times and get blown up by a ass-kicking gum-chewing tribal who gets PO'd after they kidnapped his tribe and an idiot who stumbles out of a vault giving detailed descriptions of his apparently male middle-aged father.

But the Remnants are cool, and I'll share a beer with them.

You have one little error there, mate...

... you seem to have mistaken the Nationalist government of the Enclave... for a Fascist government... which is an entirely different thing altogether. The two are similar, mind... and Fascism draws heavily upon a base of Nationalist sentiment... but the two are quite different both in definition and practice.

Furthermore, you seem hung up on this idea of 'mass genocide'... (which by the by, is redundant)


The Enclave is a nation at war. Their strict laws, radical beliefs, an intolerance for aberrations of genetics are the battlefield.


Out in the wasteland... there are mutations, and viruses, and every kind of predator you can imagine. Some were made by men... others by the twisted evolution of radiation-assisted nature. From the average 'wastelander' human to the ferocious Deathclaw, all of these mutations are absolutely and irrevocably deadly. Wastelanders are erratic and violent... and their mutated DNA, while possibly containing great new secrets of human evolution, cannot be allowed to run rampant.

The Supermutants are abominations of science... the failures of men who lived long ago, and certainly a great force of destruction. Those who are hostile should be eliminated with extreme prejudice... and those who are not hostile should be registers and confirmed as being socialized. The risk of such behemoths ruining the viability of an entire region is no better evidenced than by the example set in Washington D.C.

If stability is to ever be restored... than the threat of rampant mutation, and the threat posed by wildly mutated creatures rauaging the ecosystem, must be reduced and ultimately eliminated. If this means finding a way to reverse ghoulification and the effects of FEV... then that should be an option. But the decision to eradicate them all was one made without ease of mind or clearness of conscience.

It was a poor decision, one which would cost a great many American Citizens their lives... but it was made by a man filled with fear and love. He did what he did not as a monster... or out of bigotry... but because he truly didn't believe that there was any other way to ensure that the human species survived.

Does this excuse him from his actions? Of course not!

Does this mean that the entirety of the Enclave, and all of its citizens, agreed with his decision and actions? Does this account for the many deserters and survivors who have no hostile motivations towards anyone else? The decision to launch a nuclear strike... the full nuclear payload of The United States... falls down to the President. So too did the decision to enact the FEV-Modified bomb which Richardson had created.

His actions are no more representative or indicative of the Enclave as a whole than President Eden's (whom admits, himself, that he was -largely- inspired by Richardson) were. The truth of the matter is that the Enclave is, by and large, an unknown entity. New Vegas and the Remnants are really the first decent look we've gotten at the individuals whom the Enclave makes/made up.

Very few of those folks fit the description you seem to apply to the Enclave. In fact... you say they're cool.

They're the same people you just called idiots... only they lost the war. Do you detect the hypocrisy yet?

I don't think Lyons or Rothschild wanted to drive off Dr. Li...difficult a woman as she is she is one of the best scientists they know of...she left because of personality conflicts with Blgsley (who was exiled there because Lyons and Rothschild can't stand him so he wasn't going away any time soon) and the twin blows of first losing the love of her life (James) just as the possibility of getting her hooks into him had appeared and then believing she had consigned his son/daughter to death in the Purifier. If the LW went North after her, she could probably be convinced to come back easily.

As far as concentrating on fighting the Enclave goes, I don't see how they had much of a choice. Losing wasn't an option, and whoever was leading the Enclave after Eden was scrapped and Col. Autumn was killed or sent in exile didn't seem to be interested in a truce, much less an alliance.

And to answer your exact same post again

The second you say losing is not an option... you acknowledge the Enclave. You give their motivations merit.

To the Enclave, there is one and only one goal: The Pacification and Restoration of the United States of America. To them, anything less is failure... and failure means the death of America. To nationalists like the Enclave, one's country is a living organism... an entity created by the love and dedication of that nations people. To them, America is not just land... but a living, breathing thing... and they wish to keep it from dying.

Just as you would likely do anything to defend your mother... or father... or daughter, or wife, or son, or husband... so too would the Enclave go to any lengths to defend the United States of America. Without a country, they have nothing... they lose their identity.

To the people of the Enclave... losing the war means losing themselves. Their collective soul.

That's a fate worse than death, if you ask me.

IIRC they started scouting the mainland just after The Master's defeat and they saw countless super mutant groups terrorizing the wasteland. They overreacted a little and came to conclusion that the whole world is full of dangerous mutants and they should eradicated.

Well no, not quite. In Fallout 2 it was more than mainland America, they were going to wipe out the entire world in order to start over with only "pure strain" humans.

As for why the Enclave has supporters, they're a fun bunch with big armor and big guns. In all seriousness I imagine that they have fans for the same reason the Decepticons and the Galactic Empire have fans, bad guys are cool bro.

I know more about The Enclave than The Enclave :>

Does that mean I remembered correctly? :disguise:

bad guys are cool bro.

And sixy

Well not really, "one but-hurt experience with super mutants" would reference, to me at least, the time they actually fought super mutants. Everything else I said still stands.