What confuses me about that is, was Mariposa really a defeat? Sure they fought mutants there and sure they were forced out of the base....but from that battle they were able to devise a way to kill all mutants....

seems like a "butt-hurt" to the mutants really shdowhunt60... :dry:

What gets me is... they weren't even forced from the base by -mutants-. Not -the- mutants anyway.


They were ALREADY there looking for something to help them wipe out the mutants so that they could rebuild. The mutants they DID encounter were actually the very slaves they brought along with them to dig the place out and explore it! There was no incident at Mariposa of 'Oooh... we got our asses handed to us by big green dudes'. It was a REBELLION... because they kept on using the Super Mutants as -slaves- even after they had become too many and powerful to handle.

The Enclave didn't -decide- to wipe out the mutants because of Mariposa. They were already planning to... because mutants are a threat. Says so right in the holodisks. What they found there gave them the MEANS to kill them.


Don't get me wrong... I still think it was a stupid idea, on Richardson's behalf. The very act of releasing that modified virus would have wiped out not only all mutation... but everything in the ecosystem as well. No plants or animals would have survived, either.

Then again, as we all know, the Oil Rig had a GECK on board.

They killed vault dwellers, even though they were pure. And genociding other human races just because they were different sounds pretty racist to me.

Just a quick question about that. I thought that the FEV-Curling virus was only designed to wipe out humans and humaniod-mutants. Wouldn't the plant life still be intact? I think some of the animal life would be as well.



oh for the love of....tell me one instance where the Enclave kills based on race. JUST ONE.

You won't because you can't, they don't descriminate based on race "mutation" is not a race of humanity.

They ARE NOT racists.

The eyebots played "The Marine Corps Hymn" .Anybody that does that cant be all bad.

Correct, it would leave the environment intact, only humaniod lifeforms would be affected.

There needs to be mutation in order to another race to be born. :grad: You can actually convince their lead scientist at the Oil Rig that what they are doing is just a genocide fueled by racism.

It's more about evolution really though isn't it.

I'm late in this, but are you guys argueing about them being 'racists'?

If thats the case, then is the Enclave is trying to restore the Human race to being 'human', by wiping out something like the Mutants due to them being a threat to the restoration?

Or am I COMPLETELY off this discussion?

I don't get what you are trying to say.

exactly. I wouldn't call it a "mutation" because that has alot of stigma associated with it and saying "mutation" is what causes races is actually sorta racist in and of itself as its implying that there is something wiered and different about people of different races.

In reality there is more genetic similarity between Africans and white Englishmen than there is between white Englishmen themselves. The term "race" really means jack squat. Sure I suppose mutation could be a way to describe how certain unique traits in species are formed and how those traits are eventually passed on. But thats not a "mutation" in the Fallout sense of the word.

But enough about that.

I thought that when you "convince" the scienists at the Oil Rig. They fact that you mentioned racism was a mistake on the developers part and bad writing. Its not racism if they don't distinguish based on "race".

People dipped in FEV and mutated through radiation wouldn't be a "race" of humanity because they arn't human....

No what I mean is the way the Chosen One puts it to Curling, from what I remember he describes it as the Enclave being backward and not considering evolution and not as the Enclave being racist.

Is it racist to say that mutation is the cause of blue eyes or blonde hair or black skin? Because it's a scientific fact. And as you already said, there is basically only one human race at the moment, but in fallout universe, there actually are multiple human races. And if killing them because they are of different race isn't racism I don't know what is.

Ghouls are not human, they 'were' but are not anymore.

Supermutants are a new race.

Okay, this is what i'm seeing from one of your posts: If a hunter kills a deer it's racist, because a deer is a different race?

No, it the scientific community that is not racist. But if you are one race and tell someone of another race that their "differences" are caused by mutation. It would likely be seen as offensive if that person does not quite understand what you mean.



But you are still defining them as humans, which I would say is a stretch because I would imagine that there is very little left in their DNA which is still "human". If nothing else, mutants which have gone "feral" (DC supermutants) have lost their humanity in other ways (eating and killing their own kind, plus they say "KILL HUMANS" in their dialouge..)

Really what we're arguing here is a question of a definition of the word "race" and "racist". Which in and of itself is sort of a pointless debate so how about a truce? :thumbsup:

Just because their faces melted off they are no longer human?

Yup, pretty much.

What I'm saying is that even though they aren't prime normals, they are still humans. And killing them for that is considered racist atleast in the world I'm living in.

Guys the Enclave wants to kill all the mutants, ie, everyone including the wastelanders. It is a war of eugenics, does that still count as racism?

They are just a shell of what once was, they arn't human anymore.

You see, we arn't talking about 'our' world, we are talking about it from the perspective of the game world, the Ghouls and Supermutants wouldn't register as a human if we were in the Fallout universe.

Edit, I misread.

That's still racist, and I believe most of us are talking from our own perspectives when we say that they are indeed racist. And there have been times in history when some people haven't considered other people as real humans and yet they are called racists.

Another eidt. Forgive those horrible sentences I just constructed, I am tired and was in a hurry to play some NV.

Okay, does this mean that the Master was racist when he was trying to bring everyone back to being one 'race'?

Mutants in Fallout 3 are a completely different species at this point. FEV (Forced Evolutionary Virus) doesn't just have the Evolutionary part in it for no reason.

If what your saying about mutations, variances in genetic structure and evolution in general is true, in regards to its relation to the status of a "race" of a species, then monkeys should be considered a "race" of humanity correct? (even though they are considered a seperate species) Its the exact same thing. Apes, monkeys and humans "branched off" from the same basic genetic construct. Mutants did the same but this was "Forced" by the FEV virus and radiation.

If apes are not a "race" of humanity then neither are mutants.

The Enclave are not "racists".

I don't think that they have to kill all the humans in the wasteland just super mutants, ghouls, deathclaw's, etc. But since the only way to be sure they are all gone is by genetically killing them i don't think there is much of a choice unless we can perfect the virus because even with the enclave tech killing all the supermutants, feral ghouls, and hostile wildlife would take at least a century and we could spend that century rebuilding.

Yes they do, the NCR and other wasteland governments won't just topple over to the Enclave's demands, it is also safeguarding the integrity of the Enclave's pure-status, which so many assume is just the Enclave equivelant of Ayranism. Real events such as Chernobyl and other nuclear disasters have produced horrific mutantions, particularly in those born after the disaster, and for those who may say that Fallout radiation doesn't work this way, yes it does, see the example of Vault City and how radiation caused chromosomal damage and fertility problems; imagine after a global nuclear war how bad things must be.

Human or no, most of what the Enclave consider to be not human have cognative abilities damn near humans. Also, the Enclave also kill Vault Dwellers on a pretty common basis (see: Vault 13) which was what Fallout made pretty clear just how damn noble The Enclave is.