So that means you can find an unnaturally strong bosmer that is as strong as an orc. Totally agree... but then that means there is no unnaturally strong orc because the normal orcs cap as high as can be... naturally, kahjiit should be fastest... and I don't dispute the fact a dunmer can be as fast by being exceptional. But that means there are no kahjiit who are faster than their general race... this is still generalizing, is it not?

I didn't say it was perfect. And what you point out cannot be done if we allow the first point. I like the way they have handled it. Khajiit start out with a higher speed because they are naturally faster. Orcs start out with a lower speed. (example) But in the end both races can reach maximum speed. To me it's better than only allowing Orcs and Nords to be the best fighters, Khajiit and Bosmer to be the best thieves and so on. As I said earlier they need a different way to make the races more unique than giving them stat cap boosts/penalties. I do not think your play style should be determined by your race and vise versa. If I wanted that I would go play countless other RPG's that don't allow X race to play Y class.

I think the idea is not that the penalties for picking the "weaker" race would be insurmountable, but that they would be small yet noticeable. The strongest Orc fighter would be stronger than the strongest Bosmer fighter, but not to the extent that the Bosmer fighter wouldn't be tremendously powerful as it is. Obviously, this all doesn't really matter, since determining how "good" your character is particular play style solely by race is dumb. This is because it simplifies all possible attribute scores into one single selection, and reduces the variety of builds you can play (for example you couldn't create a "weakling" orc character, just one that chose not to train in melee combat).

hehe, got you with my cliffhanger

YES!!1! I would love races to significantly different. I don't want them to be different just stat-wise, but appearance and personality. I liked how Khajiits referred to themselves in the 3rd person. I'd love more significant differences among the human races too like the Imperials and Bretons besides voices.

the tojay and the dagi live in tenmar forest, which is actually more like a jungle. the rest is a desert. the name khajiit actually means desertwalker. khaj is sand or desert, iit is one who does whatever the preffix is. khajiit is one who sands or one who deserts. and in the desert you walk.

Right, and I get that... but what I'm saying in this thread is that attributes are hidden, therefore cannot be raised. I'm throwing all these ideas out here under the assumption BGS removed the ability to raise your attributes at each level up, without devoting a perk to do so. Even then perks won't say 'increases strength by 10' but I.stead will do something like 'increases melee damage by 5 percent and allows 25 extra encumbrance'. You see what I'm getting at?

And playstyle won't be determined by race, at all... if I wanna make an orc mage and a nord thief and a breton warrior I sure as hell can... he may be a bit weaker than an orc warrior, or a kahjiit thief, or a altmer mage, but that isn't going to necessarily stop me... plus, if you play cross styles (combat/stealth magic/stealth magic/combat, or even combat/magic/stealth) then the lines will be blurred anyways.

Well son of a [censored]. I totally missed the whole point of this thread. My misunderstanding :sweat: under the assumption that attributes are hidden I completely agree with you.

Hahaha awesome lol. Well I appreciate the debate either way haha :laugh:

I think this is certain, considering the Argonians just kicked the Dunmers' behinds recently.

Maybe the dunmer are slaves in skyrim lol.
Karma? :laugh:

Yeah, I based all my points under Attributes being in. But yeah, I enjoyed the debate nevertheless

I wish they would do that like you suggested, It would add much much much more replayebility.

PS. I Also wish that every race would have very useful and very diffrent from eachother Greater power, or just a power like khajiit can see in dark, angorian breath underwater, Nord Unfrigginbelivable against frost

I'd like to see more relevant race-specific powers. For instance, if you are a Bosmer, your charm animal ability should do more than just make Sakeepa's dog follow you around for 30 seconds, before he wanders back to his usual AI package. If you could actually charm a forest creature (of appropriate level in relation to yours, so it isn't overpowered) into being your companion until he dies or you release him, it would be much more useful throughout the game, not to mention more fun and immersion-friendly. It always bothered me that if I cast the spell on a wolf, then I'd just have to kill him anyway after he wagged his tail at me for a few moments.

Anyway, a dark elf ancestor ghost could be more useful, and reflect your character more interestingly, etc. Making race-specific powers relevant past the early levels (or at all) would make the races much more distinct in their potential playstyle, I think. Playing an Argonian because they can breathe under water is a good example. That trait really defined the race, in gaming terms.

Oh I totally agree. The race based powers should be much more useful later in the game (as opposed to powers like ancestor guardian which wereuseless from the get go) it would definitely add a bunch to the races, and a whole other aspect to weigh into race selection.

a friend of mine claims that attributes are in the game, but we cannot choose to boost them when we level, instead, they level automatically when our skills in that attribute rises. I think this is a better way of doing the attributes than in any previous game.

That would be kinda cool, does your friend have anything he can site that says that? Or is it just an educated guess at this point? Cuz if he has some info I'd love to take a looksie

That would be kinda cool, does your friend have anything he can site that says that? Or is it just an educated guess at this point? Cuz if he has some info I'd love to take a looksie

Edit: sorry for the double post... stupid Droid! :facepalm:

They can use http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1107940-perks-they-can-make-each-play-through-a-unique-experience/page__view__findpost__p__16229861 to make each race feel unique, even in high level characters.

In fact perks can make anything feel unique for ever, if used cleverly, as I have suggested in that thread.

Agreed. I'm all for perks making their way into TES games. Now if you stack perks with the possibility of such diverse races, and the removal of classes for a much more free skill system, you'll be able to make an extremely unique character tailored to exactly what you wanna do. It should be pretty epic

Choosing your race should be a very big decision in Skyrim.Imagine choosing to be an Argonian and then find out that he cannot breath underwater to start the game.That would seem odd considering the lore and all. :huh:
If each race started the game equally then why even have races.Why not just force us to play as a Nord since the game is set in Skyrim?........cause that would be stupid that's why!!!

In my opinion, races should be more distinct from a roleplay perspective, not a combat/mechanics perspective. (meaning unique dialogue/quests etc)

Not to mention, the racial traits were pretty powerful in both Morrowind and Oblivion.

I think races should have differences in the story and have a different feel as far as roleplaying too.. but I also feel they should feel different from one another in comebat as well. I think being a big scary orc should feel considerably different than playing as a light hearted breton. But as far as race powers go... there were a couple good ones.. like adrenaline rush but some HORRIBLE ones as well... ancestor guardian? Bad!! The bosmer power to control a very low level creature for a short period? Bad! Those two could easily be re-done and I guarantee you'd only get complaints from the dumbest of people... I'm sure there are others as well, I just can't recall off hand.

Well I think it is a really good idea. That's really what I was expecting.

But this just brings up another fear now, what if they got rid of race abilities for this new system? I doubt they will, I think that would really bring the game down a lot if they did.

I think that the best way to make players feel the dinstiction between races is by creating content such as quests or dungeons that actually make use of the different abillities the races have.
Oblivion had some quests like that but they where few.

For example,the only moment that the Argonian's abillity to breath underwater is usefull is at the "flooded cave" dungeon and the quest for a Mage's Guild recommendation where you had to dive in a well.
The same way,the only time the cold resistance of the Nords is actually usefull is when you do that quest where you go at a secret garden and a quest message appear at your screen saying that it's too cold and you start to loose health with any other race character.

So basically what I'd like to see is more quests designed so some special features of the races are actually usefull.

And also last but not least,I'd like to see more special lines of dialogue for each race.
Remeber at the beggining of Oblivion where the fellow prisoner has unique words to say based on your race ?
I'd like that way of race-specific dialogue to be more usual and spread.

I want to play a character of a race, not the race itself.