What do you have to back this up besides the crazy theory that "everyone wanted to be superior so they tried to trick people into believing that Asian people have slightly shorter femurs in proportion to their body"? I don't think so. Races ARE different. The differences are not always significant, but they're there. The fact I was discussing is actually used to identify remains. Races look different, and in some aspects, are different, because they evolved seperately. Rather than the fact that they're different being 'racist science', I think you'll find that saying everyone is exactly the same is being 'excessively politically correct'.

look up the book indigenous races of the earth
also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism
I know that everyone is exactly the same is wrong, but the scientific "data" that says that the bone structure or anything like that is different is just used as for politics, now there may be some slight differences but the world today is so diverse they will be hard to find

but this is beside the topic the races have specific difference, I dont think it should limit them that much with a modifier, just starting out skills

Ummm.. no.... I never said.. that those are bonuses they give you a bonus, not limit the abilities of your character.

edit:btw people stay on topic the thread is already being watched by a mod

They limit the character who does not have them. A non Argonian will never have permanent water breathing without using up an enchantment space.

There are spells? enchanted items? the fact that you save an enchantment space may also be considered a bonus. Not having permanent water breathing on one character will not limit the abilities of a charcter at all, while not being able to be as strong or fast as another one is.

IMO if you choose to be a melee fighter as a Bosmer, or a Nord mage, the initial penalty is adequate and you shouldn't be penalized at endgame, but maybe they can tweak the initial race bonuses and penalties. And special racial abilities (adrenaline rush, Orc berserk...) should scale instead of being static.

Guys, please leave real world 'superiority science' out of this thread and focus on the proposed idea. Thank you.

On Topic:
From what I read this idea is an adaptation and extension to the way the starting stats were divided for each race and gender. It's kinda the same as I did back in Morrowind with the Playable Dremora where the males were stronger and the females smarter (by comparison).

Yet this approach was still static and levelled out across the playing field, resulting in carbon copies regardless of your starting race. Benefits that prompted your choice at the start had little to no meaning halfway through as your stats would have been equal to any other race/class combination.

So this more dynamic approach would mean that your original choice for picking a Nord because he'd be a powerful fighter would be a benefit to you the whole way through the game. Same if you chose a Bosmer because they might be great archers or rogues or being fast runners. Yet now you would get this 'bonus' for the entire adventure and not simply getting a little bonus on some starting stats.

I for one really like the idea suggested here as it would make each race more unique in terms of adding slight advantages and disadvantages

Wrong. Having a race multiplier is like saying a Native American can never be as strong as someone from Iceland can be, or that a Black person can never be as good as an Asian at math. A race multiplier is the "logical fallacy" here. Races should start off with bonuses just as they always have. The idea that a Nord, or any other race is just perpetually (or genetically) superior is 100% bull[censored]. It doesn't work that way in the real world, it shouldn't work that way in Skyrim. I hope it never happens.

Water breathing is an ability too. It doesn't have to be a statistic to be an ability.

And this idea is a bonus as well. Nords get a bonus in strength, for example, at the cost of whatever else. Todd has said they are looking for more variation in the races, so that it is the biggest choice when initially making your character.

but this isn't out world
the races are totally different and have actual differences
I mean argonians are lizards kajhits are cats, thats a way bigger difference than an asian and a black person

No, the races of TES are obviously far more diverse than that of Earth. They're basically different species most of the time. The principle of strength is the same as that of, say, height. Should Bosmer and orcs also be the same height? The strongest Bosmer beign as strong as the strongest orc is like saying the strongest man should be as strong as the strongest bear or the same as the strongest 10 year old child.

Ok, but my point was that there are ways around it if you don't choose that race, but with race multipliers there would be no getting around the fact that your bosmer will never be able to be as strong as if you had picked a nord.
True he did say races would be more unique but I hope if they only do it aesthetically with normal race bonuses, I just don't like the idea that my character can't be as good as any other of another race.

Save me the "but this isn't real world" argument. That may work for discussions about the game's graphics or the art direction, but not a fundamentally flawed game mechanic.

But you could still (probably) get the same strength as the strongest Nord if given a fortify strength amulet, but at the cost of an enchantment space, like with my other example, you see?

Hardly 'never' since it multiplies what they focus on. If a Nord doesn't focus on physical skills the person will have less aptitude than those of other races who do. That is why I said it is was wrong. Khajit and Argonians aren't even a separate race, but rather separate species and so you say all species imust be equal. The multiplier could be .like 10% which is hardly noticeable, but it would still make at least some difference. The races should not start out with different attribute levels at all if you want them all to be the same. I would not mind that, but I prefer having options that distinguish my characters... Unfortunately, I know most people do not want their favorite races to be "weaker" than any of the others in some way.

This is a deal of biology. Lizard != cat. You can see just by looking at them that they have vastly different physical attributes. Just like argonians should be able to swim faster (well, if the tails are large enough) because of their tails being able to add extra force. It's simple logic, not a flawed mechanic. You're logic says that fish should have no more permanent advantages or disadvantages over chimpanzees, as a random example.

But I don't want to have to use an enchanted (insert item), spell, or potion to be as strong as a nord, the attributes are different than an ability like waterbreathing. Waterbreathing only affects you when you're under water. Strength affects carry capacity, combat strength, total health, ?fatigue? (assuming it works the same as OB). Why should I have all those limited due to a race choice?

edit:plus an enchanted item has no effect on how much health, and fatigue are gained when leveling up so it wouldn't make up the difference caused by adding a multiplier anyway.

You want to argue about species? Then you should consider the biology of cats and lizards, who are proportionally a lot stronger than humans. Argonians and Khajiit should have a 50-100% increase in strength over humans, including Nords. But they don't. They are a "race" in TES.

Well I guess it just comes down to personal preference then. Whether or not you want race to be a major decision or not. This idea at least sounds much less limiting than certain birthsigns. And just remember, what could be seen as limitations can also be seen as advantages, as you get pluses and minuses and it all balances out in the end.

That would be fine with me. I still would make my Orc with a warhammer that I always do.

Just like TES humans are not real world humans, Argonians and Khajiits are not cats and lizards. They have different features to humans, but they don't have to have, say, different muscle strengths. There is nothing to say they have the same internal muscle structure as a cat or lizard (hell, they mustn't just to move the way they do) Because these races are fictional, within reason (A hulking monster will almost definitely be a stronger race than a scrawny small thing), Bethesda has the ability to CHOOSE what advantages and disadvantages the biology of these races have.

Yeah I guess so but I have an itching feeling they probably already have something like this anyway, even if they did I will pick the race I like best (dunmer) I just don't like that no matter what I can never do as much damage in combat as an orc or a nord, you've at least convinced me to be on the fence about it because it does make the race choice a larger decision depending on the type of character you want to play. It could be a good thing as long as the differences aren't extravagant.

How about adding traits to the game that you can choose regardless of what race you were - e.g. +50 Health at the cost of -50 Magicka, or +5 Strength at the cost of -5 Endurance. I've never really understood why males and females should have different Attributes just because they're of that gender. What about the people who stand out from the crowd? What about letting the player not feel like he/she's one of the majority, but an exception - a unique person, a Hero. Defined by his/her past and with a custom Attribute table (at least to some extent).

Daggerfall just had general Advantages and Disadvantages. Why not build on that, albeit more conservatively than the terribly imba system of Daggerfall. "choose a maximum of 2-3 advantages and disadvantages", for instance.

Well, if you train enough you will still be stronger than almost every nord in the world. It's just you won't be able to be as strong as the strongest Nord ever possible ever.

Yeah, as long as it's balanced, genetic diversification options could be good. There are always exceptions to a rule.