I've had a character concept that I've wanted to play for a very long time now. The character is an orc who is an assassin that became a warlock, lost his powers, and is now regaining them. Thus, the character would be Magic-heavy (Destruction, Conjuration, Illusion, Alteration) with a bit of Stealth (not sure how the abilities shape up for Skyrim, but daggers and some skull-duggery). However, in Morrowind and Oblivion I've never really gotten this character off the ground. The reason for this is the overwhelming advantage of (if not outright need for) choosing Breton or Altmer as your race for a Mage character. Considering how expensive higher-level Destruction and especially Conjuration spells could get, I could never really justify turning away from 50% more or 150% more Mana.

So there is a question in all of this. Will Skyrim continue the trend of Breton/Altmer Mage dominance? I know it makes sense for those races to be the best Mages, but I don't think that they need to be so much better that it discourages creativity. Offering the same kind of huge Mana bonus would certainly continue that trend. There are, however, other ways to reward players for choosing race-appropriate skills that doesn't punish players for going against types. How about offering additional perks for characters that invest in skills that reflect their race's strengths? A Breton who spends points in Conjuration might get an additional Perk to either delve deeper into a tree or dip into an additional branch. An Orc could get that option for spending points on Smithing, or Block. Perhaps the starting skill bonuses will already accomplish this.

I'm all for making race choice matter more, but I've just always felt that the Breton and Altmer Mana (Magicka?) bonuses were a bit over the top. Certainly Warrior type characters weren't pushed to pick Orc, Nord, or Redguard in the same way. What does everyone else feel about this?

It make sperfect sense and fits in the lore. High level mages are the ones who are the magically inclined. It's the same thing as wasking why the Orcs and Redguards dominate the Warrior class or the Kahjiits and Argonians domiante the stealth field (and Bosmer, I like Bosmer ). There are characters who make good pures and that shouldn't change, being a master wizard would be difficult for a less-inclined race like the Orcs.

Spreading the butter too thin if you ask me. Ask Todd if you can have some more.

Magic heavy, AND stealth, and daggers, etc.?

Would be handy if each race had a skill set they could increase easier than other races though all races could in the long run reach the same level. So your Orc could reach the same level but only not as quick as an Altmer say.

Your character concept uses a race that has low affinity for magic. Doesn't mean that you can't play as an orc magic user, but that it would be much more difficult at the beginning. If you can't justify turning down Breton or Altmer lineage, then you're just not loyal enough to your concept.

Being able to directly influence magicka on level-up in a manner far beyond the puny 2-10 points per level from previous games would solve this problem.

Hes right the games not stopping you.....you are :huh: :confused: I play a redgaurd pure mage every TES game difficult to begin with but if you love magic and the orc race. You can do it :flamethrower:

But do Orcs and Reguards really dominate the Warrior class? Other than some resistances all they really have are once-a-day abilities; the rest of the time they're no better Warriors than anyone else. I guess you could say the same thing for Bretons/Altmer as Mages, except for the fact that if you're out of Magika as a Mage you're in big trouble. What if Stamina were in really short supply, and without rolling Orc or Redguard your Warrior type character was often in danger of running out of Stamina?

I just think that while Breton/Altmer Mages should out-do the other races, I don't think you should have to roll those races in order to function as a Mage (which is how it felt in Morrowind and Oblivion).

How many people actually rolled non-Breton/Altmer Mages?

Now you directly choose to boost Magicka at each Level Up. :hubbahubba:

Makes sense.

...Redguards and Orcs have naturally higher endurances, giving them more fatigue, allowing them to do more damage for longer periods of time with heavier armor and their bonus in strength allows them to do more damage....and they have racial bonuses to the combat skills...so yea...they make better warriors....

I played a Redguard mage once, perfectly doable, and comes with it's own back story,"Why did you leave Hammerfell?" "I'm a mage". Should be a lot easier now, with magicka increases every level. Just don't think, it's an orc, they should have more hitpoints no, it's a mage, they need magicka.

Even as a Breton or Altmer mage if I play them pure restore magika potions are a neccessity. Really 50 or 100 extra magika was no big deal in Oblivion, 2 or 3 medium cost spells.

Repugnose the baby eating witch may have her self another 'adventure' left in her yet...
Orc Mage for almost but not quite win!!

While I agree that any race should be viable as a caster, I too think you are trying to spread it a little too thin. Being good at all 3 archtypes seems a bit much imo.
I think hybrids should be limited to 2 tbh.

They're giving players +magicka option on level up now(you choose between magicka, stamina, health IIRC). Not sure what the Breton or Altmer bonuses will be, but I'm assuming most racials will be considerably toned down for Skyrim from the general direction they've gone with birthsigns and so on. They are making it so our starting choices will matter less that the choices we make as we progress through the game.

So while Bretons and Altmer might still be the ideal choice for a mage sort, they won't have such a dramatic advantage as in previous games where magicka was capped to specific amounts and they got 50 or 150% more than other races.



*raises hand*


His character isn't going to be good at all 3, it's going to be primarily focused on magic, with a few stealth and combat support skills. The number of archetypes your character uses is pretty much irrelevant, what matters is how many total skills you focus on. I could make a character focused on 1 skill from each archetype for example, and progress faster than someone using every skill from a single archetype.

I disagree... but they still end up weaker than Pros at all.

In the past, the problem with Racial Pigeonholing is that Magicka was a static resource that could only be (pitifully) increased through increasing intellect. Had it been based on level, the bonus to magicka in Oblivion could have become negligible at higher levels... instead, it just became exacerbated.

This time around, they can give the Bretons and Altmer a different bonus, and just re-balance the starting Health, Magicka, and Stamina attributes toward Magicka this time around.

since when do you have to be an altmer or breton to be a mage? i played as an argonian illusinist for awile, it went great, im sure i could do your build great too (but really, you are pushing it, a lot, if you want to be a hybird of a hybrid [an assasin is a hybrid warrior/thief type, you mixed it with magic] and be as effective as a mage/thief/warrior in all areas)

Most of my characters in Oblivion were stealth based with destruction and alteration majors, and never an Altmer or Breton. They were highly successful. Being an Orc you should have higher endurance (unless they wiped that out) and a berzerker power would make him good in a fight at least once a day. I don't see any trouble playing this character. I always would enchant some of my light armor with a magicka boost to make up the difference, and my first attack was always a stealthy arrow scoring a critical hit which takes the wind out of most enemies sails.... and later on would be an instant kill most the time, if not the poison got them before they got close, along with lightning bolts if needed.

Fortify magicka (whether spells, enchants or potions) made even the highest spellcosts mostly moot. Sure it might be a bit harder at the start to make an orc mage, but nothing stops you from being successful if that is what you want.

And imo the reason orcs/redguards were the better warrior was because health was based on the amount of endurance when you leveled up, though taking damage was mostly bypassed at the very end.

Elder Scrolls games aren't about balance. If you want a game that's focused on giving you 'fair play', i'm sad to say it, but go to WoW.

Elder Scrolls games are about playing your character in the setting of Tamriel. In this world, orcs simply don't have the raw magical potential that Bretons or Altmer do. Argonians can breathe underwater but no other race can. Dunmer have a very high resistance to fire, no other race does. etc, etc

This is to give flavour to the character you want to play, to give it a certain background with which to play, expressed in stats. It's not meant to be balanced. If you're playing games just to race to the finish line as efficiently as possible, don't look to TES as "your game", it's not meant to be that kind of game.

First - I have a very powerful Orc mage in Oblivion. It wasn't that tough.

Second - you need not worry. Every single indication we've gotten yet is that race will make virtually no difference. In fact, that's something that Todd has repeatedly bragged about - any race can play any "class" without any particular difficulty. So all those people who couldn't figure out how to play an Orc mage in Oblivion (and I sincerely have no idea how anyone couldn't) won't have that "problem" in Skyrim.

I probably min/maxed myself into a corner to an extent, and honestly never really gave the character concept a fair shake.

As for spreading myself too thin this go round, I don't think I am. I'm really just shooting for around 6 skills (which is pretty standard for defined classes in Morrowind/Oblivion). Destruction, Conjuration, Illusion, Alteration, Daggers (which I think are being placed in a Stealth skill, perhaps part of Sneak), and one floater skill (don't need Lockpicking with Alteration, might go with Light Armour). I'm honestly not sure what the Stealth skills even are in Skyrim. If someone who knows more could list them, that'd definitely help me narrow it down.

The extra magicka did come in really handy, but I always preferred a Dark Elf to an Altmer or Breton. How did I cope?

Well, in Morrowind and Oblivion, I chose either the Mage or Apprentice Birthsign. Always did a lot of alchemy and conjuration so I could get the best Intellect stat-ups on my level ups. Enchanted my rings, necklaces, and gear to have bonus magicka. And don't forget that the magicka cost for spells (at least in Oblivion, can't remember for Morrowind) actually were lowered as your respective magic skill increased! While we're on the topic of enchanting, you can enchant your weapon to drain magicka per hit too! And, if all else failed, I kept a ton of restore magicka potions on hand.


So, in the end, it's not necessarily the "best" way to play a mage if you don't go Altmer/Breton, but it's very, very , very doable.

I had a good Argonian Mage going. He did quite well.