In Daggerfall, the one thing I remember was this cutscene for when you could have six with people you met. It eventually got axed and I still have the original art for it in a cabinet here. It was tastefully done of course. - Todd Howard

We all know that six and sixuality was neither prominent nor hidden in Daggerfall. There was a prosttute's guild, leather and chains callgirls in the taverns, and a brothel here and there. Witches covens generally included nudity, the King of Worms keeps dancing girls, the Queen of Sentinel has her group of nearly nvde male servants, and the temples appropriately had nvde people all over the place.

And yet, nobody played the game because they just really wanted to see pixelated boobs. The stuff was there, but it was treated as the normal state of affairs because those are the things you'd expect to find. It was an advlt approach to the world without making it a gimmick like the strange six scene collection in the Witcher.

Contrast that to Morrowind and Oblivion. Dark elves in lore were supposed to be permanently horny, and all they really had in Morrowind was the House of Nirnly Delights (can they say Earthly Delights?). Not that they need to offer you a handie under the table, but they don't need to treat six like it doesn't exist, which was accentuated by the lack of children in those two games. In Oblivion we get the weird Anvil gals who have an easily spotted scheme. It's about as kid-gloved as they can get.

Can we have children characters and six indications back in the game? (and hopefully in separate places) I don't think the player needs to have any sixual encounters or children themselves, but the world always seems more fleshed out with those factors included. Just treat them reasonably, and definitely don't overdo them.

I entirely and wholeheartedly agree with you. Nothing to add.

Agreed. If FONV is any indication of the direction for Skyrim, I think it is likely that at the very least references to six and kids will be in. Maybe Beth was playing it rather safe with OB given that they were releasing it on a brand new console at the time? There were no precedents for six and kids in X360 games when OB was released. Now there are plenty.

I also agree wholeheartedly.

The mature treatment of, and implication of sixuality is potentially so much more powerful than the tasteless focus on it, or the total lack of it that most forms of media seem to treat as the only options. Even in the most mature and sober of fantasy settings, sixuality, reproduction and violence are inherent aspects, and to treat them as if they don't exist at all seems as awkward and tiresome as an excess of them.

Here's hoping Bethesda have the integrity and courage to include a few more advlt themes in TES without assuming that players are either emotionally immature or delusional prudes.

I think Oblivion was going for a T rating to boost sales, and it originally achieved it. After the ESRB went back and re-reviewed after they discovered the nvde skin in the game files and gory headless corpses that they somehow missed the first time they changed it.

But now that Fallout is their biggest hit ever, and the M rated Call of Duty games are some of the best selling games of all time, I think they realize that an M rating doesn't hurt video game sales as much as an R rating hurts movie profits.

prostitue guild in daggerfall?

explain.

... From here I can see a greek chorus of the Bethesda lawyers, yodelling like banshees.

*Shrug* Glued underwear and micro-hysteria over the potentiality of toplessness. Nah, can't see that happen. Besides, if I can be frank, unless they do a literary U-turn from the overall lack of politics, black-and-whiteness and creeping cheesiness of Oblivion, I don't even want them to try.

But if, and if, yeah, of course.

I would rather enjoy some light sixual innuendo in Skyrim. It would be funny, but anything more is over the line in my opinion. I play an RPG for intense combat, character development, cultural and political conflicts, and for most of all, fun. six is not required or appropriate for me to have fun, so I dont see a need for it.

However, child characters I am completely fine with.

Unless youre proposing six WITH child characters, in which case I will take a rain check, thanks.

Well, daggerfall wasn't particularly censored
unless they want to pull an Ao rating, which would wipe out a quarter of their buyers, they're probably going to keep it to a minimum
remember all that flak mass effect got for showing half an alien boob?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKzF173GqTU

Yeah, we definitely need some better weapon and armor racks. The ones in Oblivion were... Wait, what were we talking about?

I hope they get some flak. Here's what Ted Peterson said about Daggerfall.

And then there was the rating system, which is more black humor than anything else. Between Arena and Daggerfall, the United States Congress, led by Senator -- nearly vice-president -- Joe Lieberman, had decided that we needed to have a rating system on computer games to save the kids. I got a questionaire for Daggerfall which was obviously made for much simpler games. It asked questions like "Is there nudity in this game?" "Yes." "Is there bloodshed?" "Yes." "Can an innocent person be killed?" "Yes." "Can there be a reward for killing an innocent person?" "Yes." We got slapped with the worst rating for a game, needless to say. And later, Lieberman listed us as being one of the top ten worst corrupters of children ... Of course, I'm sure that sold a few units. - Ted Peterson

Well nudity does not have to be included, as in FoNV there was no nudity, but it would add to the feeling of the taverns if there was lightly dresses nord women dancing on the tables of the tavern/inn on a late friday night. Why not saturday night too?

A morrowind graphics extender mod had a view into a tavern where dancing on tables took place and in a corner a couple was kissing, I don't see why this couldn't be added.


And yes I do want to see kids in Skyrim, chasing eachother with wooden swords in the country side. And do make them un-killable, didn't feel odd at all in Fo3 or FoNV.

As long as there's an even ratio between males and females of negotiable affection. Nirn is equal opportunity employment!

I'm all for the reintroduction of six into TES...that and fire atronach boobies. /jk

and children...no more father and sons that look like roughly the same age.

And to combine the two in a good way: Include a quest about rescuing children from a six ring.

But don't you consider six to be an inherent part of the tapestry of a game world, at least one as developed as The Elder Scrolls? Your argument could just as easily be applied to food clutter items - people surely eat in the TES setting, and the fact is supported, however in-the-background it is, by the inclusion of all that cutlery. To extend the comparison, I don't think it's being suggested that there be an eating mini-game or a half-eaten apple on the box art; just that the game world give some indication that people eat.

I hadn't considered how different an environment Skyrim is being developed in compared to Oblivion, either: hopefully Fallout, and other more recent console releases will have paved the way for a more advlt TES game.

If they actually knew what was going on in Mass Effect they wouldn't have made such a big deal about it.

Classic Fox News failure to research problem.

I always wondered why the Nords were de-robed in MW. And more culture in the games is always good by me.

Well it seems I misunderstood the OP to a degree. I disagree in the option of the player to have six, to put it simply. It doesnt offend me, and Im not a prude, I just think it isnt necessary. However, I agree with your point about six being a recognized aspect of society, and having that reflected in a game. I believe that the maturation of gaming is essential to it being taken seriously as a work of art, and the acknowledgement of six is certainly a step in the right direction.

As for the children and six part of my post, that was more meant to be humorous than anything.



Again, guys, just a lame attempt at some dark humor.

I agree. I mean, if you're gunna get an M rating, you might as well make it worth it. It doesn't have to be blatantly crazy sixual, just realistically. I mean, who'd expect to see people walking around half naked in a Tundra like Skyrim?

@Ostrichman:
Ahh, we're definitely on the same page then (unless it's me who misunderstood the OP in some way). And I'll edit out the second part of my response; responding to something just to say we shouldn't even be discussing it, was uncharacteristically dumb of me, heh.

Well, nowadays you can't see anymore highly pixelated things in video games,
so if there is boobs in new video games, it's bigger thing than it was before.
They would be detailed and realistic looking and...........I WANT BOOBIES!!

And right there is the problem, at least insofar as children. Immortable, indestructible children are not reasonable. And I'm not calling for child killing ability here- but the ludicrousness of "essential characters" extends to NPCs of all ages, and personally I find a world where the kiddies are hidden away completely to be (even if only slightly so) more believeable than a world in which kids are somehow utterly impervious to damage in any form, from any source.

Thanks! Its pretty hard to tell on the internet



Youre not going to walk up to a child and swing a sword at him/her, are you? So why should it matter if they are un-killable?

I actually came into this thread thinking the OP was hoping for the customization of bust size in character creation. :biggrin:

Which I am also all for...

If children are killable it will create a huge scandal and uproar. if you want kids in they have to unkillable because any game that has killable children is gonna get shut down so fast it'll have friction burns. Its ok to have a game killing men and women but kids are a whole nother thing.