According to Bethesda, the Radiant AI has been beefed up in Skyrim. To what degree is the question. Their explanation for some of the dumbing down in Oblivion was too much emergent behavior - IE, npc's buying out all the items from a shop and leaving none for the player, murdering each other frequently, ect ect.

So the question is, to what degree should NPC's initiate actions, including unlawful ones? Each possiblity of course opens up an exponentially greater amount of emergent behavior, both good and bad.

Let me give an example: In Oblivion, you couldn't lock your house, and there was no reason to (aside from the insane psychic guards following you in).
No NPC in Oblivion would ever come in and steal items from you. In fact the only time they would take an item from the game world (when not specifically scripted...glarthir, I'm looking at you.) is if they were hungry and they would eat food, or they needed a weapon in battle and would pick one up.

So, imagine in Skyrim that some NPC's were kleptomaniacs like the player. You suddenly have a very real incentive to lock your door when leaving, and not to leave valuables lying around.

Imo, this makes the world so much more alive - when only the player initiates actions, it seems scripted and routine. I want to see the guards chasing a thief, or witness a npc stealthily pickpocket another. True, sometimes the emergent behavior gets out of control, but I think the tradeoff is well worth it.

What do you think?

This definitely makes me interested in companions, like full time personal guards for my stronghold.
Hahahaha, if I'm a bad guy and I had necromancer guards, I suppose I would encourage thiefs to try to steal my stuff... That just means my necromancer guards will have some extra buddies! :wink_smile:

EDIT: I wasn't clear in my opinion. I like all of your ideas. They would definitely make the world feel alive, and not scripted.

Npc took food from the game world. they also picked up weapons if attacked and unarmed.
Bandits will attack other npc, also think npc at pubs and inns bought food.

I would not want npc to break into my house and steal items, fun if they run off with some artefact. It would also be hard to differentiate from game bugs if you don't caught them.
Pickpocket has the same issue, taking money is ok.

And yes npc should go to jail or pay fines, and it had been fun if vampires feed, an animation isue.

And yes heal other should be inn, also npc to npc, so a bandit mage might heal another bandit.

Hm, yeah. maybe if you can lock your door, and if you have a good enough security skill you can set it so it's unpick-able.

but pickpocketing... i don't know. i don't like that idea. I'd be way too cautious and stay out of crowds at all times.

For pickpocketing, only allowing gold, and not too much of it, to be stolen might be a good way to alleviate that.

It would definitely make you more cautious, and you should be.

NPCs not having to fight to the death because of theft is a good idea, really i checked all of them, but I rather like the idea of seeing random NPCs in jail, instead of dead on the ground.

I remember making a beggar child NPC in Oblivion, she took an apple then all the guards in the IC ran after her yelling "STOP THIEF" and then killed her.

All of these. Some good ideas there.

Edit: This thread got me thinking. Some of these actions could potentially lead to the deaths of many NPC's. Given that some of these (and the planned features for Oblivion) are already in the game and the fact that we now have children. Will they grow up and act as fillers in a world where NPC's have a much more risky life? That could be a more hands on reason for them adding children this time around despite their earlier reluctance to do so. It certainly could be a way to tackle the problems they had with radiant AI in Oblivion.

I can only hope

If NPC can break into your house when you're gone, the game should give you hints as to who perpetrated the act so you could retrieve the stolen goods.

Or, to prevent the theft of your items, make it that NPCs cannot break into a locked house, regardless of the level of the lock. They can only sneak into your house if the door is not locked. Else the game might get frustrating.

it would be amazing to see many of those option in game. doubtful. but if that happens i will... let's just say be very happy.

yeah maybe if i only lose like up to 1% of my total gold. it'd be fine.

I wonder what would happen if you catch a pickpocketer though. would you automatically blab to the guards?

That's precisely why it's awesome! NPC action that potentially alters your behaviour in-game!

All of the Above :thumbsup:

You know, I never thought of that. Children would then serve a practical purpose other than "oh hai, we have children so its more realistic! see!"
Interesting idea. Although, the benefit to the option above that would let an npc go to jail or pay a fine, would cut down the body count from the guards considerably. That, coupled with the system you pointed out, could almost completely mitigate the downsides to all that unexpected emergent behavior.

Now, another thing is how the Player would report a pickpocket - you know, we do have a partially voiced character, with the voiced Dragon Shouts, heavy breathing from exertion, grunts of pain, ect...perhaps they could have some dialogue the Player automatically says if you catch a pickpocket in the act. "Filthy pickpocket!"

Breaking into our house should trigger a quest. With the random quest thing possible, this could be one. After you have been stolen from, go to an inn or somewhere with lots of folks. Listen to the rumors and eventually find out about someone who boasts about how he just robbed someone. Talk to him, beat him up or something. Learn that he wasn't really the one who did it and he only wanted some fame from his friends. So he tells you to find the real person. Etc. Just an example, not saying this should happen in exactly this way, but something like this. Straight from the fantasy novels I read

I like it. Get on this Bethesda.

I love almost all of these ideas. And I REALLY fancy the idea of being robbed or pickpocketed. Would it drive me insane? Of COURSE it would! But that would just make the world seem more alive, make NPCs seem more treacherous, and would give me things to do other than just quests such as buying locks for my house and hunting down whoever stole my special loot.

I hope NPCs can do things to you and to each other, and that the world is not just static (apart from a planned routine of action), waiting for you to wander up and glean information.

yes, as long as they don't steal my favorite sword without a trace...

Most ideas seem good, but I want them too make sure my house is left alone. What's the point of collecting artifacts if the npc's only steal them?

Maybe you can lock your doors, with upgradable locks, or that quest idea being able to recover stolen items.

- It makes sense for crimes to be possible for appropriate NPCs. Thieves breaking & entering, Dark Brotherhood occasionally killing, that's great, and a fertile source of town gossip too. It would get dumb real fast if just anyone had a chance to initiate these actions, though. I mean, imagine a prosperous shopkeeper randomly decides to pickpocket a beggar. For this nonsensical and poorly-motivated crime the guards cut him down. Awful. On the other hand, a rare thief or two breaking and entering, at night when all is silent? Awesome. Roleplaying and quest opportunities ensue - if you catch a thief at it, could you threaten to call the guards and extort money? Simply call the guards and offer to witness at the trial? Or try to buddy up with the thief and join the Thieves' Guild? Perhaps even follow him back to the local Doyen?

Similarly, I like vampires sneaking into houses to feed, as long as they do it skillfully.

- Raising recently slain corpses, if a necromancer and in combat, sounds okay-ish. This would probably be a crime, though, so similar restrictions as with thieving/murdering. Hostile NPCs in dungeons could do it, and that would be great. One or two non-hostile NPCs may make occasional midnight trips to the graveyard, to practice their dark arts in secret. Otherwise, necromancers really shouldn't ply their skills unless they already seriously fear for their lives; the potential backlash is too great to justify it.

- Pickpocketing and robbing the player. As some stated above, it would svck if thieves could lift your unique items or take copious amounts of gold. I like some of the solutions to the home thievery issue; upgrade your locks to prevent it altogether, or get a quest to find the culprit and deal with him. For pickpocketing, here's another possibility: Suppose some urchin picks your pocket in the street. A sound or camera vibration alerts you to this fact; the cue is stronger if your sneak skill is higher than the thief's (perhaps you even automatically catch the thief's hand if your skill is very high). You spin around and see the little bugger dashing off, and give chase. From here you have two options (supposing you don't resort to violence): either catch up with the guy, and bully him into giving you your money back, or go to the guards. If you can correctly describe the culprit in sufficient detail (provided via multiple-choice dialogue options), the guards will be able to find him, make an arrest, recover your property, and return it to you.

As an alternate solution, if you are in the Thieves' Guild or have sufficiently high Infamy, pickpockets will know to avoid you and your property entirely.

- Buying food seems mostly irrelevant - it would be the same to me if they produced their meals from bottomless pockets - but if there is an appropriate economic system in place to resupply the food, I don't see why not.

- I'd prefer there were limits on the purchase of weapons and armor. For some NPCs it doesn't make sense; farmers shouldn't work in full suits of armor, unless their neighborhood is VERY lively. Many NPCs are supposed to play a specific role, which means they should have a specific difficulty level in combat, which means they should have specific equipment. Also, someone mentioned, it would cause problems for the player if they bought out all the shops. But in a limited context, it might be great. Suppose you sell an enchanted item in a small, sleepy hamlet. Next time you come back, an ambitious young adventurer might be showing it off to his friends, bragging about the great deal he got and how he's going to go troll-slaying next week when the harvest is done. Or in major cities, some upper-class collectors might buy any uniques you sell and display them in their homes. These limited, designed possibilities could work nicely without screwing up the game.

- Provoking a dragon? Well, again, in a limited context, sounds okay. I wouldn't want this to happen in cities; too much potential carnage. A lone adventurer on the road, though, sure, sounds like good clean fun.

- Going to jail/paying fines? Yes PLEASE! These features should really have been present in Oblivion and might have prevented some terrible street fights! Healing friendlies? Again, should have been in Oblivion.

- I have one to add: Please, PLEASE, let NPCs repair their equipment out of combat, and buy new repair hammers if necessary! I have dudes in my game who walk around perpetually shirtless because they can't figure out how to fix their cuirasses.

+1

I agree with every point raised in this post.

Yes, this. I particularly liked the idea of items you sell manifesting themselves in the game world.

This thread has brought up some really great ideas. I hope it does not get lost and forgotten, without Bethesda ever seeing it.