Randomly Generated

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:10 am

How much of Daggerfall is randomly generated?
User avatar
Lew.p
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:31 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:09 am

If it's the same as Arena, everything that isn't a major city. So the wilderness of Daggerfall and the small little settlements in it would all be randomly generated at the beginning of the game.
User avatar
Natasha Biss
 
Posts: 3491
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:47 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:27 am

If it's the same as Arena, everything that isn't a major city. So the wilderness of Daggerfall and the small little settlements in it would all be randomly generated at the beginning of the game.


How many major cities are there?

Also, wow. Daggerfall is 6000 square miles randomly generated... just about everything?
User avatar
OnlyDumazzapplyhere
 
Posts: 3445
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:43 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:25 am

How many major cities are there?

Also, wow. Daggerfall is 6000 square miles randomly generated... just about everything?


http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall%3a%50laces

So I guess pretty much everything that isn't on that page is randomly generated.
User avatar
renee Duhamel
 
Posts: 3371
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:12 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:59 am

Is it possible to randomly generate a game with modern graphics and a physics system and have it work well?
User avatar
Alexander Lee
 
Posts: 3481
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:30 pm

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:50 pm

Procedural generation techniques always uses some sort of rules or a grammar to generate content and mix it with unique content. IMO if you want to make a game with a realistic land scale and realistically sized towns this is the only viable way.
User avatar
Nikki Hype
 
Posts: 3429
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:38 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:56 am

All of Daggerfall's towns, terrain, and dungeons were procedurally generated once back in 1996. So everybody has identical towns and dungeons on their Daggerfall installation. Capitol cities and main quest dungeons were hand-created.
User avatar
Roberta Obrien
 
Posts: 3499
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:43 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:35 am

Stonefrog wins the day. We all have the same dungeons to play and the same towns to visit. That works out well for us because we get to share interesting places if we like.
User avatar
JLG
 
Posts: 3364
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:42 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:27 am

Indeed, it's possible to create huge game worlds using procedural generation. For the sci-fi fans, there's Frontier and its buggy sequel First Encounters, which came out around the same time in the early-mid nineties as Arena and Daggerfall, in which the game can procedurally generate the entire galaxy, hundreds of millions of planetary systems with stars, planets, moons, asteroidal bodies and etc, all in the space of one old-time floppy disk-- less than a megabyte. All the computer needs is the math for generating the systems and they'll turn out the same each and every time because the numbers don't change. Known systems like Sol, Alpha Centauri, and so on are hand-coded, just like the capital cities and main quest dungeons in Daggerfall and Arena. Physics and light-sourcing are also reasonably handled, at least given the time the games were released.
Frontier is similar in many ways, tone-wise, to Daggerfall-- totally free form universe where you get to take whatever role you want in the game. And like the Elder Scrolls, it's still got a loyal fan base online.
Of course, there's also some difference in using a five-megawatt pulse laser as opposed to a fireball spell. :P
While I agree with mingoran that creating a landmass the size of Daggerfall's play area would be prohibitively difficult without procedural generation, I also think the method has a problem with sameness, a sort of bland uniformity of everywhere. Aside from the main quest dungeons and capitals, Daggerfall has no famous landmarks to seek out. Every town is pretty much the same as any other, aside from the building textures and NPC names. The best way, for my money, would be a more balanced combination of the two methods. Procedural generation for wilderness and many towns, but hand-code a little more variety in. Give the players some nice out-of-the-way locales to wander. I think the later Elder Scrolls games, from what I've seen (and I'll admit I've only played Arena and Daggerfall) have at least some of that, though perhaps they took it too far and limited the scale of the game.
User avatar
Chantel Hopkin
 
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:41 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:30 am

Another game with procedural generation is Dwarf Fortress, so if you're interested in randomly generated worlds complete with a rich history and culture you should check it out. :)
User avatar
Alex Vincent
 
Posts: 3514
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:31 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:03 am

Is it possible to randomly generate a game with modern graphics and a physics system and have it work well?

That German one, like Doom 3. K -something.
User avatar
joseluis perez
 
Posts: 3507
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:51 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:45 am

That German one, like Doom 3. K -something.

http://www.theprodukkt.com/kkrieger.
User avatar
A Dardzz
 
Posts: 3370
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:26 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:34 am

Pretty much everything in Spore is procedurally generated as well.
User avatar
Leah
 
Posts: 3358
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:11 pm

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:49 pm

kkrieger isn't random, though. Its content was designed beforehand. The program generates all the content procedurally when it's run so it can be distributed as a small executable (the point of that demo). That group even released a version of the tool they designed to make those demos.
User avatar
Cheryl Rice
 
Posts: 3412
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:44 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:49 am

Also, wow. Daggerfall is 6000 square miles randomly generated... just about everything?

Every game has the same wilderness and cities. However, they may have used some sort of randomization when they created it.
User avatar
Taylrea Teodor
 
Posts: 3378
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:20 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:13 am

Also, wow. Daggerfall is 6000 square miles randomly generated... just about everything?

Every game has the same wilderness and cities. However, they may have used some sort of randomization when they created it.


Isn't Arena different every time though? How large is Arena?
User avatar
Mrs Pooh
 
Posts: 3340
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:30 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:40 am

Isn't Arena different every time though? How large is Arena?

Arena is pretty much infinite in size, as you walk the wilderness in the area just gets randomly generated. It's literally impossible to just walk from one town to another.
User avatar
Dan Wright
 
Posts: 3308
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:40 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:07 am

Arena is pretty much infinite in size, as you walk the wilderness in the area just gets randomly generated. It's literally impossible to just walk from one town to another.


So, is it really infinite, or is there number one can call it's size? It must have a limit.
User avatar
Tammie Flint
 
Posts: 3336
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:12 am

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:34 am

I heard that if you walk to the very edge of the wilderness outside a city in Arena, the map wraps around and you'll find yourself back on the opposite site (i.e. keep heading north and you'll end up in the south). I myself have never attempted this as the wilderness does seem to go on for quite some time.
User avatar
Kirsty Collins
 
Posts: 3441
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:54 pm

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:00 pm

So, is it really infinite, or is there number one can call it's size? It must have a limit.

I'm not really sure, I think I recall someone saying that if you go far enough the game crashes due to memory overflow or somesuch, but I don't know for certain.
User avatar
Dona BlackHeart
 
Posts: 3405
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:05 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:24 am

Also, is Arena a good game? Can anyone give me Arena's minimum size, and is Arena a varied game? When crossing the border between Cyrodiil and Skyrim in Arena, will I notice a difference in environment, architecture, and ruin types?
User avatar
Benji
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 11:58 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:23 pm

well there will be snow and the look of the houses will be different.
User avatar
Chantel Hopkin
 
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:41 am

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:58 pm

Also, is Arena a good game?

It's a good, casual, game. Much like Daggerfall (to a certain extent.)
I'm a bit biased towards Arena, as it's the first ES I've played.
User avatar
Albert Wesker
 
Posts: 3499
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:17 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:46 am

Isn't Arena different every time though?

Nope. Neither the cities nor the wilderness is random in that sense.

How large is Arena?

Very, but rather same-y after a while, like every game. How soon "a while" is varies by the person on the keyboard.

So, is it really infinite, or is there number one can call it's size? It must have a limit.

I've never had the stomach to check, but someone reliable told me it eventually loops back to the town you left. I doubt extremely that you circumnavigate the map. Arena just doesn't have that kind of code built into it.

Also, is Arena a good game?

Oh, hells yes it is. And the price is right.

is Arena a varied game?

There's some variation, like every game, but there's no denying that the graphics are limited by today's standards and can tire quickly on one if one is not in the correct state of mind. Turn your clock back to 1994...some of you will still be using sippy cups, others will be pre-utero... :)

When crossing the border between Cyrodiil and Skyrim in Arena, will I notice a difference in environment, architecture, and ruin types?

Not much of a difference, really, but there are subtle differences. As someone said above, there is also seasonal weather, so that's a nice change from MW/OB's essentially between-the-Tropics weather.
User avatar
Jay Baby
 
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:43 pm

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:47 am

In Arena, Cyrodiil is a city in the Imperial Province! Get it right!
User avatar
CRuzIta LUVz grlz
 
Posts: 3388
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:44 am

Next

Return to The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion