I'm talking about how Sheogorath was represented in SI. In vanilla Oblivion, it wasn't so bad. There's no need to show his in depth personality for a simple quest. But in SI, when you see him through the duration of the whole main quest, he needs to be fleshed out.

Sheogorath wouldn't be able to only show his better sides to the CoC to make him want to do his quests. Madness isn't a thing that can be controlled, especially in the most insane being in Mundus.

And think about horror games. Sheogorath's dark side would be something simliar to that. Horror games sell, why wouldn't it sell here?

Yes I understand what you're saying. The "madness" of Sheogorath in SI was tailored to a popular "fun," conception of insanity. The madness of the Mad Hatter in the Alice and Wonderland was changed in a similar way. I found Sheogorath's madness in SI insipid and boring, and had hoped for far more intelligent, subtle, interesting and eccentric type of insanity that would have made quests like the Everscamp and the Fork of Horripilation seem like something Sheogorath would think up.

Oh, and giving someone a vaguely scottish accent does not make him mad. They did it to Sheo and the Mad Hatter. Silliness. Not all scottish are mad, and I dont know why such an inane accent has suddenly been given over to typecast something as interesting as insanity.

That's me.

I think you're thinking of Sheogorath being the 'star' that created 'The Star Wounded East'.

Why are Welsh and Southern accents considered uneducated? 'Cause they are.

It might've been distorted for Vivec's followers, but then again, so were the Lessons, to an extent.

Oh my, I really am getting old. That's Ken reworking my first "Star Wound" stories.

Yeah, Eco was right. The author should die once he has finished writing. So as not to trouble the path of the text.

I too think that Sheogorath should have been represented in a darker way.

But that's not to say I hate how he was in the Shivering Isles.

I always though Sheo should have been more of a sociopath

Anyone who has contact with any form of mental health problems knows that they are hard to detect due to the swings in personallity that is caused by the conditions.
Schizophrenia, dementia, manic drepression all have terms of lucidity where you act normal you can go a very long time without showing many symptons, only for some stresser to spark you into a self destructive cycle.

So as Sheograth is a Deadra whos life span is probably immesurable it would make sense for the sake of story that his lucid momments could take up hundreds if not thousands of years.

And believe me madness portrayted as talking about cutting up people to make instruments is in no way the scary side to these issues. Day to day management of breakdowns, complete psychosis, paranoia, hallucinations, panic attacks, inabillity to form sentences or understanding of any meaning or context in conversations. Inapropiate behavior, extreme disregard to feelings, compulsive behavior, compulsive mirth making, agression, timidity, addiction, paralysis, constant weeping, self hatred, self harm, food issues......

The list goes on I am afraid so I would rather have a pg version of Sheograth with no depth aimed at keeping everything neutral and fun for a player, rather than a fantasy game make an attempt at true madness while not being able to understand the issues that the poor people who suffer from any version of it actaully go through.

If Bethesda want to stay down that annoying PG route, they still could have done so much more. Even angry mood swings would have been better. And Sheogorath NEVER acts normal. A hunter doesn't hunt every second of his life. Yet, Hircine gladly hunts constantly. Someone who loves to party and fulfill lust temptations will take a break at least every few days. Sanguine parties 24/7. The Daedra have immensly emphasized personalities. They know only what they are. Sheogorath knows nothing but Madness, just as Hircine knows nothing but hunting, Nocturnal knows nothing but darkness, etc.

Personally, after some of the things he says, I believe Sheogorath gets more lucid as the Greymarch gets closer.

If you think about it, he, a raving lunatic (if you buy into the whole "everything happened as Bethesda presented it" theory, and not the "Sheogorath drove the CoC bonkers and he's not REALLY Sheogorath" theory), he was able to lay an extraordinarily good plan to end the threat of the Greymarch forever.

The Greymarch was the only part of Sheogorath that showed a darker, schizophrenic side. Now that that's gone, what has he? If you look at SI's Sheogorath, all he is now a pure comedian. He is now one big joke. That is awful. When something important is set in stone in lore, such as what a god is a god of, it shouldn't change. I don't want to find out that Sanguine likes to party, and leave out his [censored] lustful side.

Do me a favor. Hit Sheogorath once in game. Then, consider how dark AND crazy he is as he punishes you...

What? 'Enjoy the view'? Doesn't sound very menacing. Though the execution of the guy for growing a beard is. I think the citizens of Mania should have loved him as an eccentric, and those in Dementia been really scared of him, yet loyal to him

Oooh, I mean, if someone hit me, I know I wouldn't want to retaliate...

Seriously, if you hit a god, the chances are, it won't end well for you. It isn't a dark thing, you've just threatened his life. Being a god, I would think he would have a lot of challengers. Those in that pit are likely people who've challenged him.

Besides, if you want to count that as a "dark and crazy" thing, that's ONE thing thoughout the whole game where he actively does something like it.

I'm agreeing with all but the threatening of life. I don't think a mortal can truly threaten a daedra lord's life
or can they?

Well it's not a nice experience to be poked with pointy objects. :shrug:

Also, the avatar can usually be destroyed, and it takes a while to restore itself. (though, granted it takes a helluva person to kill a god's avatar, in his realm, no less)

HAhaha yeah i see your point.

Alright, sir, I'm going to take a crack at this.

As has been noted previously, Sheogorath is on his best behavior in Shivering Isles, just as he was in Oblivion, Morrowind, and Daggerfall. That's what makes him so dangerous, he presents himself as a friendly, if eccentric, old man, in order to lure his victims into madness. As you're his champion, he stays in the light and cheery aspect of insanity (being the Prince of madness, I'm assuming that he can choose which aspect of it he presents, if any). But listen to him when he talks to the remaining duke after the Ritual of Accession. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2idjrcNAJU Even mid-sentence, his tone changes and he's suddenly not light or fun anymore. Some less-memorable quotes from Shivering Isles, for those who don't feel like watching the above video:

"Guards, I think Thadon/Syl has forgotten how to use the door. Kindly show him/her out. Before I forget myself."
"Hold your tongue, little Duke/Duchess, or I'll tear it from your mouth."
"Then go, Thadon. Have your Greenmote. Take a bath. But leave. Before I decorate my throne with your insides."
"Then go, Syl. Return to your quarters. Before I send you back in pieces."

This is before he gets lucid, as these lines directly follow him blathering about filling a pit with clowns. But hearing him present the lines, it's obvious this isn't "Haha, look how wacky he is! All talking about murder and cheese!" This is Sheogorath making it abundantly clear what happens to those who cross him. It's increasingly obvious as the player goes through the quest that what he's seen thus far is what Sheogorath has allowed him to see in order to gain his loyalty. But behind the scenes...

I've already read that book, Hircine. It gives brief descriptions of the realms, and that is not enough to reveal the realms,

Well no, not really. You don't see Dagon stopping trying to destroy Nirn because he doesn't feel like it. A Daedric Prince doesn't control his sphere, he IS his sphere.


This isn't enough, though. I fail to have found anything other than this, where there is a dark moment not intended as a punch line. If what you say is true, it is immediatly followed by the "hole of clowns" gag. (Haven't played for a while)


While what Sheogorath does may not make sense to us, there are two reasons for this;

• He's a Daedric Prince. What a god does doesn't always make sense to a mortal. They have a higher calling.
  
• He's insane.

Seti, every realm described portrays the prince well. Malacath's realm represents Nirn if he was there, Azura's realm is beautiful, like she is supposed to be, Vaermina's realm represent a constant nightmare, etc.

The "hole of clowns" moment came earlier, when he was talking about previous attempts to stop Jyggalag. Then this exchange took place, and then immediately after that he was sunshine and smiles again. Which leads me back to my original point. This is the only point in the game where we see Sheogorath addressing someone other than the Champion of Cyrodiil (if I recall correctly), so it's the only point where he's not focused on leading the player into believing that you're his BFF. The player character is not omniscient, he only has what is in front of him to go off of. So even though there are many more facets to Sheogorath's personality, we only see the one that he chooses to present to the player. Likewise, just because we only see one aspect of him, doesn't mean that that's all there is.

Being the god of insanity, it makes sense that he has some control over it. You're right that the Daedra can't change their nature, but they can control it. Mehrunes Dagon is willing to work with mortals, like Jagar Tharn or Mankar Camoran, even though it goes against his nature, because he can see a greater goal which a temporary alliance would serve (the chaos under Jagar Tharn, being allowed to directly enter Mundus and destroy it himself). Likewise, Sheogorath should be able to present himself in a way that appeals to the person he's trying to woo.

Dagon doesn't have a major personality change to work with mortals (He doesn't even have a bad personality, imo, but that's really another story). Sheogorath removes half of his personality completely.

Sheogorath has always taken the form of a wealthy, civilized man to lure people.

But he doesn't make everything he says a joke.