I always have been pretty annoyed about how Sheogorath was interpreted in Shivering Isles.

I've always thought Sheogorath to be one of the darker princes. People hate him, and he causes pain and suffering frequently. In SI, however, he was a comedian. Sure, he represented certain aspects of insanity, but Sheogorath is pretty much the definition of insanity. It stands to reason that he should have his schizophrenic murderous side. The ONLY times I ever saw something remotely similar to the darker side of insanity was when it was acompanied by some kind of punch line. "I'm so happy I could tear out your intestines and strangle you with them!". That may show signs of insanity, but there is no serious side of insanity, because it's a joke.

If you go to an asylum, I guarantee, not everyone will be the kind of happy person Sheogorath was depicted as. I'm talking about his PERSONALITY, by the way. I don't mean his realm, or his quests. Sure, his realm may be him, but he is also his realm. If his realm depicts dark insanity, so should his personality!

I just feel that there was a major joke made of Sheogorath. He has aways been an important villain. He threw the Ministry of Truth at Vivec!

How does everyone else feel, from a lore point of view? I've complained about it before in the general discussion, but people just enjoy his humour there. I feel people here may feel the same way as I do.

I agree completely, and I think it extends to the Isles as a whole. I wanted something dark, twisted and genuinely frightening, but we got a bright, colourful place full of harmless eccentrics.

I agree completely. He is supposed to embody both the manic and demented sides of madness. The manic side was portrayed alright - and really well - but there was no darkness in him other than when his voice changed suddenly. I consider him to be one of the, if not the most dangerous Daedric Prince as his whims are unpredictable and he could send you on an errand, grow bored within a minute and simply kill you.

I think Sheogorath in SI was rushed. They probably wanted to have a refreshing change of view on the Daedric Princes being dangerous - Dagon - and wanted to show a different side to one. That still was one of my major concerns with Sheogorath though. People love his character because of how SI portrayed him. If they knew him how he really is they would think differently - did he not rip a woman asunder and make musical instruments out of her bones and organs? That doesn't sound very friendly.

Exactly. I believe that some just like his realm, for the more unique landscape. Even though his Madhouse was ignored, entirely. If Bethesda wanted to show a "good" side to a Daedric Prince, why choose Sheogorath? Azura, Peryite, Meridia, or even Sanguine if they wanted to retain the comedy. (The darker sides aren't as emphasized in him, imo)

As far as I can tell Sheogorath's personality in the Shivering Isles is pretty much consistent with his portrayal http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-wabbajack.

What makes Sheogorath dangerous - what has always made Sheogorath dangerous - is that so many of his followers are ecstatically happy. He is, after all "the comforter of men."


So... I guess what I want to say is they did a pretty good job.

Oh, and Sheogorath wasn't the one who threw the Ministry of Truth at Vivec. I don't know where you got that from.

What about, as said before, his ripping a woman asunder, and making musical instruments with her organs and bones?

That also depicts PART of his personality.


I believe I read that somewhere. Might have been one of those things on the forums, might have been in-game. I'm not too sure. It's a vague bit of knowledge I have.

I'm not disagreeing with that. And that aspect of his personality, as you yourself attest to, was represented in the Shivering Isles.

My point is that Sheogorath is so dangerous precisely because he often isn't blatantly dark and murderous. Look at it this way. Were you a denizen of Tamriel in your first post you basically said: "You know, Sheogorath's not that bad. Most of what he says are jokes anyways."

That makes him much more dangerous than, say, Dagon. And in my mind also more interesting.

It isnt how dangerous he is that matters... It is his personality which is wrong. He was always very friendly and slightly mad. But when you think of mad people in the real world you dont think of friendly people who may act strangely sometimes, you think about murderous villains who kill people they see at once. You think of pyromanics. You think of raqers and people who hurt other people because of nothing. That is missing in Sheogorath.

I agree with you there. His dangerous personality being so much so that he appears nice under his deception. However, i feel it wasn't made known to the PC(the person) of his other side. Hence why everyone seems to have a thing for Sheogorath compared to the other Princes(Azura being second). They all feel he is a jester, a comedian, and just that. He isn't. He's mad. He is a dangerous person and, at least with other Daedra Lords you can communicate and make deals with them, Sheogorath would not be so easy/impossible as he would be prone to changing the deal at any second - see his bet with Azura of whether someone would become insane after solitarity in 100 years.

I'm just saying they could have, and should have, fleshed him out some more. However I guess some acts are proof of his danger - see the man who was executed for simply growing a beard. I guess the only real way to know about what the Prince is really about is to read the Lore and books. The game mechanics seem to stunt the ability of making their spheres and feelings truly known.

I've got a friend who used to work security at a mental hospital.

Of course those people were medicated, but from what she told me the insane are almost certainly not "murderous villians who kill people they see at once." She described many of them as being incredibly charming, and highly intelligent. But as she talked with them she would gradually pick up that something was just not right.

A person representing ALL sorts of madness cant just represent those slightly eccentric and funny.

Exactly. But we didn't pick that up. The only difference I saw in him was how his manic side deterioirated into his sadness when he knew his time was up - because what he said, coupled with the great voice acting, made you realise how much he hated being transformed into Jyggalag and destryoing his realm. But that's it. No other mad side to him

Personally I don't think Sheogorath should only have a darkside, and be über serious, since he is the God of dementia and mania. So I'm quite happy with the way he was depicted in Oblivion. He must have a lighter side, otherwise he wouldn't be Sheogorath.

But you're missing the point of madness in all its forms. The game portrayed only his manic side. We didn't see his evil, twisted and dangerous side which was present in the isles itself. Another note: We didn't really see any dangerous madmen did we? They were either paranoid or just eccentric.

I don't know, I think he seemed pretty twisted and dangerous from time to time.

I don't believe all of you are grasping the full picture here. The Shivering Isles was a tailor-made part of Asylum designed to trap heroes (specifically, the CoC) and then drive them insane. That insanity was key to create a symbolic Sheogorath who would divest Jyggalag from Sheogorath.

Imagine the given circumstances. You are the Champion of Cyrodiil. You have helped defeat Mehrunes Dagon from conquering Tamriel, you have reached into the gaping maw of Oblivion and wrenched its jaws shut once again. Lo and behold, one gate still remains. This one, however, is different, but that shouldn't make much of a difference. Any portal to Oblvion is a danger and therefore must be closed for the sake of the Empire. You find out that the place is the realm of Madness. Well, alright, you reached into Dagon's Deadlands and didn't really come away changed, so you should be able to stop this threat as well.

Only, it's not a threat. Sheogorath asks some favors from you. He dangles all of the correct motivations in front of you; a worthy quest, fame, glory, honor, and riches or wenches or what have you. Some of the requests are a bit odd: for instance, you have to stop other adventurers from essentially following in your footsteps or drive them insane. But its just par for the course. It's not like you're insane. Everyone else around you is just off their rocker. As you help people with their problems and continue working for the daM doG, outlandish things are just normal. Sure it's weird and everyone around you are weird, but you certainly are completely sane in everything you do. There was no other way to carry the flame of Agnon back to New Sheoth. And then those Knights of Order showed up. They were awful. Horrible, soulless creations that are the antithesis of everything you stand for. What exactly was it that you stood for again? Oh yes! Truth, Justice, and some nice Rimmen Cheese.

I could go on, but the gist is that everything and everyone down to the Heretics vs the Zealots and the brightly colored mushrooms were all designed to lull the CoC into a specific kind of insanity. The stark raving kind. If Sheogorath's paranoia and the other more crippling insanities that Sheogorath might have were presented to the CoC, then he wouldn't have accepted Sheogorath's jobs.

But then what about Dementia? Which would certainly not lull someone into believing it's a lovely place. The creatures are dark and the land itself is scary and twisted. I feel it's just Bethesda being lazy on that front as no citizens of Dementia were dark and twisted and in any way frighteneing - just paranoid/annoyed.

Let me put it like this: You can't sell a deep, dank and dark jungle filled to the brim with dangerous creatures and ancient ruins to the public, so you have to change it to a stereotypical medieval fantasy wonderland. You can't sell a psychopath with the bright inspired and highly addictive side and in the other second insane and irrational anger, and the land that is modelled by and after him, to the same people.
Business, folks.

Staff of the Everscamp was quite interestingly maddening. It's all about perception and circumstance.

Dont forget Sheo NEEDED the CoC to do something, maybe he was taking exceptional care to maintain a friendly demeanor towards him. The Denziens of his realm simply sort of followed suit. (or the corner of his realm that is the SI, although the game leads us to believe SI is the Madhouse)

I think the Prince is probably more reluctant to show his darker side to his potential champion - lest s/he be scared off from the Isles.

One need only look at the Hill of Suicides to realize that Sheo is a [censored] up bastard. Not only is it a part of his twisted realm, it is also his immediate doing. If Sheogorath is the Isles, and the Isles are Sheogorath, then it is all a representation of his personality. The being the player speaks with is merely an avatar.

1. Sheogorath needed a champion. Therefore he needed to not kill him/her in a fit of madness. Can't have much of a game if your protagonist is murdered by a raving lunatic. The Joker, for example, can be depicted as an insane villain because he's not going around giving Batman quests.

2. If you want to depict Sheogorath as evil and the embodiment of all mental illnesses, you know what'd happen? Bethesda would've been lobbied by numerous civil-rights groups and it would've been pulled off the shelves/not sold at all for being offensive and implying that mental illness is somehow evil, since the embodiment of those illnesses is a bad guy.

I never heard of him being one of the darker princes, aside from being marked as a "Bad Daedra" by the Tribunal Temple. As he said in Morrowind, madness is a bitter mercy.

I think it may have been a game-play aspect. It wouldn't be fun if he, the quest giver, kept on trying to murder you.

Oh come on, you're just being creative enough.

"Good, you've come to meet me at the bottom of this dungeon. Let me activate these traps here. Good. Now have fun crawling your way out!"