The OP's worries have no real backing simply because Skyrim will not use the level scaling that Oblivion uses. Not only that, the OP ignores that the Thief archetype/Stealth Specialization skills do have combat options, regardless of how high or low your weapon skills are. To top it all off, the OP is ignoring the detail that +30% is absolutely insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Especially when compared to the +122% that you could get in Oblivion with the Major Skill + Specialization combo.

As long as there's no skills in Skyrim that take 70+ hours of swimming (I.e. Athletics), the percentage increase will be a subtle but nice bonus. Nothing too drastic or game changing.

To me, "Thieves have no offensive skills" isn't the point.To me the point is that probably the only reason they moved Archery to the Warrior tree is because they removed hand-to-hand.And then because thieves only had five skills after that, they made pickpocket a skill, which makes no sense, that entire skill and it's perks could easily fit into the sneak skill to make room for something more useful.It just seems to me like they're juggling around skills and when there was nothing wrong the way the skills were arranged in the first place.Warriors don't need to attack from range, arrows are more expensive and rare in Skyrim, and since you don't have to repair weapons and armor anymore, it's going to seem pointless to most melee specialists, since it would be a waste of money for something that doesn't really even fit their playing style.

If the sneak + kill gets me the same amount of exp towards a lvl compared to either a mage or a warrior gets for one kill, then I'm kind of happy about that.

I take it you work at Bethesda?

This decision makes sense tome, but the "trees" i think are no longer reminiscent of their old titles; Warrior, Mage and thief, but rather Combat, Magick and Stealth. archery is a combat-oriented skill. I think a pure thief will have to delve into combat at sme point.

I think pure "i want all my points in the green nebula!" investment will not work.

I personnaly like the change, it just makes sense. it's a new way of thinking, but i feel it suits elder scrolls mantra (not history) well.

Balance.




You level only 30% slower in your one handed or bow skill, assuming that the sneak attack modifiers will not be extremely lower than in Oblivion, you must really svck at math if you think that your offensive capabilities are worse than a Warrior (without stealth) with only 30% faster weapon skill progression.

Try to look at it the other way around. If you level both stealth and weapon skills (and the offensive magic skills as well?) at maximum rate, you would be majorly overpowered. It would create this "perfect" build that everyone should take if they want to have the most combat effective build.


Right now it is balanced, the Thief's combat augmenting skills (mainly Sneak and Alchemy) more than make up for the 30% less weapon experience.

I'm glad they expanded the rp potienal of actuly being a thief. Sneak will control sneak attacks. IMO nothing about thief screams archery. You don't need good sneaking skill to off some one 30 feet from you in the back. You do how ever need it to sneak up and cut there throat hence sneak has assissinston perk for dagger, not onehanded.
Archery is more the rougue/ranger class which is more a mix of all three test archetypes. At first I was out raged to untill a few seconds of brain actively cut in and exsplained how it was fine if not better.

Just don't use the Guardian stones and level everything equally, there is level scaling, so no need to rush. :shrug:
Doesn't bother me at all.

Or better, use the warrior stone to ensure your fighting skill is much above your remaining thief skills if you want to metagame that way.

it would be hard to assassinate a Dragon.......


but with stealth you normally go into one-handed/marksman and have light armour, so you just use that

Daggers are under sneak.

And what stops you from using bows again?

Since Elder Scrolls doesn't nail the increase in your characters power to killing enemies being a stealth character actually allows you to avoid enemies.

Also from what I've read the stealth skills do have powerful offensive abilities attached to them, such as executing backstab attacks through the sneak skill, or applying nasty poisons throug the alchemy skill.

Dagger perks are in sneak, base damage is still under one-handed.

I wouldn't worry too much about the guardian stones.

From what I understand, to begin with there are three guardian stones which are easy to access. These are the ones you are talking about, governing the archetypes of magic, combat and stealth (not sure if they're called that in Skyrim) and giving an experience boost to these.

However (as I understand it), later on there are guardian stones which give different kinds of boosts in other areas, or special powers.

I understand your concern, which is that if you pick the stealth guardian stone you'll level up without developing your combat skills at an equal rate.

The obvious answer to this concern, however, is to either simply not pick a guardian stone and just take a bit longer to level up (personally I don't think I'll have a problem with playing the game a bit longer :biggrin:) or pick a guardian stone that doesn't give you an experience boost in an archetype but a different kind of boost to your abilities.

I think i'll wait and play the game before I get myself worked up about a play style maybe being gimped.

IMO being a thief isn't about stealthy assasination either; it's about stealing stuff and getting away with guile and a quick tounge. If anything, then thief whispers "easily concealable ranged weapon", hand crossbow or blowpipe with with poisoned missiles or throwing daggers even grenades and smoke bombs and invisibility potions will be used before a thief goes into melee.

Carrying a bow seems a bit disadvantageous in that trade. Much of the bow-hype for thieves comes from the Thief series, but dowsing torches could just as well have been done with grenades (i.e. water bomb) Garrett also never showed us how he carried that bow of his.

As for Ninja: they were spec op samurai, not a mythical sect of assassin-thieves. Heck, that classic ninja suit we know from the movies was actually worn by stagehands in japanese theatre. The black outfit meant that the audience was supposed to ignore them.

And yes, I expect a thief to have trouble fighting dragons in fair melee-combat, otherwise it would be a fighter / thief not a thief, not that there is such a thing as classes in TES, you can learn whatever you want, and be a master of all trades half trough the game, classes in previous TES games just gave you an advance in certain skills and/or made them more important for leveling.

The whole point of the new system is to mix and match.

A short bow is one of the best weapons for a thief in AD&D, I think that is where it comes from mostly. This is because if you end up in direct combat (no chance to backstab) you won't be in the front line. Also they are great for surprise attacks and poison delivery.

At least you get bonuses for attacking while undetected. If you expect to lose against a powerful enemy, then avoid him. If you have to kill him, then improve your combat skills elsewhere and return later when you are ready to fight more powerful enemies. If you have been focusing on your stealth skills, then you will be better prepared for dealing with stealth situations. Hopefully the game will make those situations so difficult for non-stealth characters, and so rewarding for you, that you will be very grateful for focusing on stealth instead of combat.

Any warrior who wants to be stealthy at times will also level up slower, along with any other hybrid. The guardian stones are not just for leveling up your skills faster, there is one, for example, that allows you to raise the dead, as seen in the dualshock article. Chill, man, everything will be fine and dandy.

but it doesnt really matter, classes do not exist... if you play stealthy using some combat/warrior skills, you are a stealth character.. it really has no impact from what I can see, beyond the stone thingies

Simple solution: Don't use the guardian stones. Do you have to level faster in some skills, what's the rush? And if I'm not mistaken, there are other stones besides the Mage, the Warrior, and the Thief. Those three are the main constellations, and if you recall from past games, the other birthsigns are their charges that are sub-sets of the main "archetypes", so logically there are other guardian stones for each of the other birthsigns, just because we saw those three in one clip of gameplay doesn't mean they're the only ones in all of Skyrim. So if you don't want to worry about issues with leveling, just don't choose a guardian stone, or choose one that doesn't have said issues.

Todd Howard said in the E3 demo that you can find Guardian Stones all over the world. He also mentioned mage warrior and thief were the basic ones, implying there will be variations so there may be things like assassin archer or rogue guardian stones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic6dKnv3WdU 3:14 is around where he mentions those are the basic ones that you find quickly

Lol really, you can be a stealth character and use the warrior skills.

Why are you people so.... :facepalm: