The Guardian Stones reintroduce the idea of class specialisations (30% quicker skill gain). Meaning if you pick the stealth stone aforementioned non-combat skills level up quicker, levelling you up quicker. Meaning when you face a dragon, your offensive skills have either been harder earned than any other character or your lack skill in said offensive skills makes it a much harder fight than it would be for Mssrs. Mage and Warrior.

Reverse-pickpocketing poisons and dagger perks are awesome stealthy supplements to be sure, but against a dragon I rather think they will be somewhat ineffectual, forcing you to fall back on a combat skill that hasn't levelled up along with your chosen stealth skills.

Specifically, my concern is that levelling will leave you behind when it comes to fights. I know it isn't the exact same system as Oblivion, but to borrow an example - pick all non-combat skills for your major and start to level up. By the time you get to fighting the higher level enemies, your higher level skills are unsuited to direct combat. Skyrim has levels (which given the new system can only be based off skill numbers - those 30% faster non-combat skills being just as valid as warrior or mage skills), and even Fallout 3 (which the devs state the levelling takes after) has levelled enemies - again, see how easy it is to fight a high-level Overlord or Reaver if you've focused only on non-combat skills.

I assume sneak attacks did more damage and would likely do more with perks? A single attack usually more powerful than any others?

Ah, I see what you mean. Looks like the best skill to increase would be sneak with the guardian stone activated. Sneak has the special stealth kills now, so all should be good.

Is it known yet how many guardian stones there'll be?

It's confirmed that there are three, as seen in demo footage, encompassing the main three skill sets. If there are more 'hybrid' stones it has not been revealed, and I doubt it - as it renders the whole 'Mage/Combat/Stealth' (also seen together in the constellations) subsets pointless.

I'm pretty sure we saw something about "those born under the sign of the Shadow" shown on one of the loading screens.

While the OP has a perfectlty legitimate point I wonder how much can be accomplished with combat avoidance. See a dragon - run away and hide. Powerful enemies - sneak around them. Quests require you to engage in combat - delay in completing them. Then switch to the warrior stone later in the game to get the combat skills necessary for the fights that you will not be able to avoid. Better still would be to be able to complete quests through stealthy means.

I thought birthsigns had been totally done away with? Have they been placed into skill 'perks' instead? More info needed, I think. Still, the point about the Guardian Stones we've seen so far, their 30% bonus to designated skills and the effect on levelling remains.

I am pretty sure that Todd said them was the first ones you come across and that the others will be more difficult to find, I think there will be one for all the birth signs.

So what? You cant bring yourself to using daggers and bows simply because they are not under "stealth"? OH PLEASEE!!!!!!

Im sorry to break it to you...but bows and daggers are used in COMBAT. You learn how to fight with WEAPONS for COMBAT. You use stealth skills to be STEALTHY >_>

I believe they have said something along the lines of "There are guardian stones all throughout the world."
so Imagine there are quite a lot of them; hopefully some named stuff such as "Assassin Guardian Stones" that help you level up sneak/alchemy by 60%, making it a better choice for people who want to specialize on a small number of skills, rather than having a low bonus of 30% for 6 skills.


Oh and I mean having Guardian Stones for different combinations of skills and different x% values.

I thought since they were replacing the birthsigns there'd be one for each of them. Don't know if the others would be similar to the powers they had in the other games or if they'd all be skill-boosting ones; maybe some could be like, half combat and half stealth skills. If there are others, the game would have to be balanced so you could still be effective as a thief without using either the thief or the warrior.

If that's true then it's a huge relief - you're talking about Guardian Stones for the other Birthsigns (Warrior, Mage and Thief being birthsigns in their own right in previous games).

I have to say I'm rather perplexed as to what skills they'd fit in the other Stones, and that's assuming they work the same way as the ones we've seen. How would skills for the Apprentice or Atronach differ from the Mage? What would you put in The Lord, The Lady, The Ritual or The Tower? Will they allow 'custom stones', to pick and chose what skills you want the bonus to apply to rather than trying to fit into presets (there are only 13 signs - but 21 classes in Oblivion)?

Perhaps there are instead bonuses like we've known before, replacing or supplementing the 30% skill bonus of the three we've seen. However, this is all supposition so far. I must say I'd love to know where the Todd mentioned the other Guardian Stones.

I am pretty sure there will be one for each of the birthsigns something about you choose what stars guide you or something like that.

You miss the point entirely, friendo. Namely the fact that these skills level up slower than stealth's non-combat skills if you pick the appropriate stone.

It's hard to say for sure, I think each of the stones will basically represent what they did as birth signs.

An example maybe is for example the Atronach might give you a boost to your maximum magicka and might help you increase your skills related to magic somewhat fast not fast as the mages, and the downside would be your magic is stunted just like the birthsign and it might even give you a chance to absorb magic cast at you.

I think also that you can change what stone you have at any time. Its been a while sense I seen anything about it and I am on my phone so I can't post a link...

Um, daggers and Bows. Those are stealth-ish offensive options. Just because Marksman and 1h weapons are labeled in the combat tree, that doesn't mean you can't use them as a stealth character.

Please read the OP. This isn't the point.

@ Otheral; It's been confirmed that you can change stones, which is good. But still, to make a working character who can face down levelled foes and dragons it'd be rather frustrating to keep travelling back and forth so your combat skills can keep up with the non-combat ones. Let's hope the other stones mix it up a bit - if they just add bonuses like the birthsigns the levelling problem remains.

That's not really a feasible combat option is it?

There's a Guardian Stone that enables us to raise the dead, so i'm expecting quite a few.

To the OP:

The new system isn't going to penalize you for this, at all. Not like the old system, the removal of attributes leaves you with no negatives to using a skill from the Warrior Path.

I really don't think the "30% less growth" of warrior skills, when you're under the Thief guardian stone, will be nearly as bad as you're picturing it. You'll still be getting decent skill in your non-specialized abilities, and you'll have assistance to your combat abilities from your Thief skills (as mentioned, Alchemy will give you poisons, Sneak will give you better sneak attack bonuses & dagger perks, etc). Synergy between skills.


And yeah - I imagine that the other guardian stones will have powers & bonuses themed around their constellation - the Steed might increase running speed or stamina, for example. But we'll see.



(another comment on the "30% faster skill gain" thing... this is less of a bonus than you had for specialized Major skills in Oblivion. And I used non-spec, non-major skills all the time. I really, really, don't think you're going to need to keep running back to the stones to switch to warrior for a bit to "catch up" on your combat skills.)

Well, stealth isn't a combat playstyle.

Let's hope not, I'd like my stealth characters to be able to face down dragons as well as mages or warriors.

I dont think if you use one handed the game will punish you

heck when we did have classes my pure stealth character always at least had blade skills on him