Going off the list from http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1227427-skill-descriptions/ topic - with Marksman's reshuffle into Warrior skills, the Stealth subset is left without an offensive capability. Each skill subset, as presumably determined by the Guardian Stones which are the closest things to 'classes' in Skyrim, has 6 skills (selecting a stone in the skill categories cause you to gain experience in them 30% faster, if memory serves). Magic has many ways of killing foes, from the Destruction to Conjuration skills. Combat skills have been equipped with One-handed, Two-handed and Marksman.

Stealth, however, has Light Armour, Sneak, Lockpicking, Pickpocket, Speech and Alchemy. All perfectly good skills when supplemented with a way to actually kill your foe. The closest it comes to an offensive power is Alchemy's ability to craft poisons, but even then you've no way to deliver them without dipping into the Warrior skillset. What else will you do when confronted with a dragon, talk him to death?

Are Stealth characters crippling themselves by levelling non-combat skills faster than skills than can put a foe down? Going purely off the Guardian Stones, you'd have to put extra effort into actually killing foes to be at the same offensive power as a Warrior or Mage, or have to make constant trips back to the stones to swap to another skillset when you're preparing for a ruck, needless micromanagement to make a Rogue as potent as the other two classes.

Hopefully I'm worrying about nothing.

First, there are literally dozens of old threads on this and it has been discussed to death

And second, I totally agree

Just focus on the stealth skills and one-handed or archery. The game will still consider you a stealth character.

Pretty sure there was something about Sneak having perks for daggers.

Alchemy can be used for poisons, and you can reverse pickpocket things on people.

Check the pick pocketing perks you can reverse pick pocket poisins into an enemy. Plus I think I remember reading something about daggers damage also being goverened by the sneak skill but im not sure if this was every confirmed.

Their are no classes, and yes the arrangement of the Skills into classes...when classes are removed does seem backwards, but don't focus on the context of what Beth dictated the arch type of skills, just play the game, nothing wrong with a Stealthy guy that whacks the living hell out of their opposition with a mace. and personally I do not see what different it would make if Archery were under Stealth.

It makes some sense, those skills are what you're most proficient in as a stealth character. You shouldn't expect the same amount of combat ability as a strict warrior, but you should expect to do much more damage than a warrior by using sneak attacks, which is governed by stealth.

Furthermore, there is no way you can play the game as a stealth character without leveling some of your martial skills, it is inevitable. So, you should be proficient in, say, daggers, even if your birth-sign doesn't cover it.

Actually, Poisons DO appear to be the main offensive ability in the Stealth skill set. And you CAN deliver them without a weapon skill. Apparently you can "reverse-pickpocket" poisons into an NPC's inventory and they will drink them. Also, there is a perk that makes this always work.

But I imagine you'll just pick a weapon skill from either Combat or Magic and it will just increase more slowly. No one is planning on staying entirely within one skill group anyway, are they? I plan on using Archery for my Stealth character for example.

I'm pretty sure this is why classes were axed. You can play a stealth character and also have a skill you can level up with that involves combat like blade and archery.

I see no problem.

yea.. i'm probably going to use a bit of every skill set.. imo theres nothing wrong with a stealth character just because theres no skills for killing things.

So what's the problem? If you want to kill something you just grab a weapon and kill it. Why does it matter what the skill is classified under? It has absolutely no effect on gameplay.

Damn, my search terms just threw up threads about hand-to-hand and mercantile being removed. Still, I'm sure lots of things have been discussed before, but it doesn't make the concern less valid.


We know that Skyrim has levelling. A stealth character levels up non-combat skills faster, being fundamentally weaker at a higher level than an equivalent warrior or mage character. The devs have stated that the levelling takes more after Fallout 3 than Oblivion, but still - imagine taking on a Super Mutant Overlord having put all your skill points into Lockpick, Barter, Speech etc and having to work harder to put points into Small Guns, Explosives or whatever.

Dagger perks are under stealth, so a pure thief would get their thiefly benefits out of it from there. Their overall one-handed skill would develop a bit slower, but since they're not warriors it makes sense that it'd be lower than a fighter's.

I don't expect the guardian stone skill difference to be that important; if not having one boosting one of your main skills would be a severe hindrance then the other ten that aren't the fighter/thief/mage skill raising ones would get ignored.

Where's this dead horse come from?

It look's to have suffered sever injuried due to blunt damage of some sort....


i guess it couldn't have been done by a stealthy type.

*cough*

With no class restrictions you should be able to choose any weapon set that you want to specialize in right, so if you want to focus on marksman do that if its one handed choose that. I think all the stealth skills are well placed I think its an odd move for alchemy but I guess it could be argued its science not anything arcane.

Really? I consider myself a stealth based character, and I would find it absolutely horrible if I had to confine myself to the "stealth skills" as outlined by Bethesda.

My top five will probably be these:
Stealth
Marksman
Alchemy
Destruction (runes placed just in case I am noticed)
Pickpocket

There is some "combat" and some "magic" in there, but that doesn't stop me at all from feeling a complete stealth vibe from my character. They got rid of classes, why would you shoehorn yourself back into one? I guess it is your freedom.

There are no classes, so you cab specialize in whatever you want. That's the beauty of the new system. Skills are just grouped under the archetypes.

They didn't go with a stealth archetype, they went with a "thief" archetype. Thieves don't focus on combat.

Use a bow.

Just use a bow or a dagger, the games not gonna suddenly say "NO YOU CANT DO THAT, UR NOT A WARRIOR!!!!" This is why there are no classes, so you can pick whatever skillset you want without being hindered. Oh and the guardian stones are all completely different. While some may give special updgrades to pure mages or thieves others simply give the player a special spell they can use or and upgrade to a specific skill.

The only thing affected by what archetype a skill is grouped under is which guardian stone will give that skill an experience boost.

Your offensive options are stealth kills and poisoning your weapons to make up for your girly noodle-arms that can't lift a real weapon.

Mix and match to create your own personal take on any class, I did this anyway in Morrowind and Oblivion. I will do the same in Skyrim I will build my character then name them whatever class I want.

Riiiight, but that's not what the OP is talking about. The three basic stones correspond with the archetypes and increase skill gain rates for the skills grouped under each archetype. However, with the way that the skills are arranged, choosing the Thief stone isn't going to give you an increased skill gain rate to any offensive skills at all, since there are no offensive skills grouped under the Thief archetype.

1. Stealth determines sneak attacks and dagger perks. Here is your main killing stuff.

2. Pick Pocket. Reverse poisons and stealing weapons, leaving the NPC a harmless mess. Nuff' said.

3. Alchemy - Poisons.