I say it doesn't really matter in the Split. Why? Because think about it this way, just because the culture was stuck in the 1950s and the technology was stuck in the 1950s doesn't mean we can't have Vietnam Era AR-15 rifles or 21st century SCAR-H rifles. Heck, it'd be awesome to wield the cute little Uzi!

So long as the technology involving in making the guns isn't TOO advanced. Remember, no microprocessors or post 1950s technology in guns other than ultra simple ones.

[censored] CoD. It shouldn't be compared to a post-apocalyptic RPG, whether it has FPS elements or not. CoD wasn't the first modern shooter, after all.



So, wait, there were H & K's? I didn't even think they were a company back in the 50's.

Ugh. Let the "twitch" gamers have their CoD, I'll take good ole Fallout with as many unrealistic weapons as humanely possible. After all I play video games for fun, not to be educated on what a ABCDEF103 looks like up close.

Wiki says 1949.

And H&K weapons in Fallout include the fictional http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110211035547/fallout/images/7/77/Fo1_10mm_SMG.png and the http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110308165930/fallout/images/3/3b/Fo1_Gatling_Laser.png, aswell as the real-world http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110308054327/fallout/images/3/38/Fo2_H%26K_P90c.png, http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050511052113/fallout/images/2/29/Hkcaws.gifand http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050511052831/fallout/images/9/9c/HKG11E.gif from the older games. So basically, in Fallout 1 and 2, they used real-world companies with either fictional weapons or more modern prototype weapons that got mass-produced in the Fallout universe (like Pancor Jackhammer)

Real world weapon companies known in Fallout 1 and 2:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Colt
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Glock
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/SIG-Sauer
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Winchester
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Rheinmetall_AG
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Rockwell

Notice how most of their weapons are fictional.


And I am all for "old" weapon designs, with wood and all, because I think such weapons are much more beautiful. I liked the service rifle in F:NV - semi-auto M16 with wooden parts.

That is a matter for an aesthetic debate. It isn't just the shape that got copied..the internal workings of the firing mechanism and basic design were also copied..a lot. And yes there IS a patent for AK rifles..however the older models are considered public domain due to age of design
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47

Don't forget these:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/FN_Herstal (which oddly they have in Fallout 2 but state that the P90 is HK, then Fallout Tactics gets it right)

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/.44_magnum_revolver_(Fallout_2) (not sure if S&W is a canon pre-war company but it's mentioned a lot on the wiki on various pages)

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All we know is that the divergence happened sometime between 1945 and 1969 (1961 depending on source). So technically any design up until that end date could be considered fine.

There are some weapons that don't state the manufacturer in the games such as the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Desert_Eagle_.44_(Fallout) (IMI) but are clearly later designs and non-prototype.

The http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/M60 (USORD) could be cutting it close to the divergence. More importantly if this is canon, there is no reason AK-47's and M-16's shouldn't be. Some people suggested that AK's shouldn't be in the games, well guess what the 47 part stands for?

Then there is the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Light_support_weapon (Enfield) which is based on a real world service weapon, the L86A1 LSW. I will exclude the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/XL70E3_(Fallout_2) which actually is the prototype of the L85A1/A2 which is a variant of this same weapon family known as SA80 (Small Arms 1980's).

Also consider that 7.62, .223, and .44 Mag (these are the ones just from the first two games) were developed after 1950, and that some of these companies didn't exist prior to that either, Glock for example.

So my point is, where do you draw the line? Who's to say that some things wouldn't have turned out the same if history had veered off into an alternate universe? Besides if you look at all the other games in the series, some modern firearm designs are in them. Having that decade or so of unknown leeway when the divergence happened helps, and they shouldn't ever change that. I'll concede that it's better that when they use a modern gun design they don't use it's proper name.

On the other hand, keep in mind that firearms if well looked after can last generations, and just because a design is older doesn't mean that it hasn't been copied and brought into production again by companies such as the Gun Runners.

For me at least this topic is a moot point that I can overlook. Food for thought at any rate.

I agree with you but for the timeline split. It happened at the end of the 1950s. Still some weapons from the early 1960s have shown up in fallout games but I put that down to "they were working on them in the 1950s."

Real life firearms? To a lesser degree (only few). Game-universe variants of real life weapons, plus complete unique ones is a much better idea.

And I agree with you because of the whole 1950's theme, but the exact date is completely unknown as it should be. Maybe they've been [censored] the weapons up since the start and we just can't admit it! Good thing it's all fiction so really anything goes. :biggrin:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Divergence

Read the first part of that "Note that the Fallout world is not our own, but instead diverged from ours soon after World War II. So, while it takes place in the future, it is not our future, but the future as imagined in 1950s science fiction."

The 1960s of Fallout is a different then are own. There was no space race, no vietnam war no cuban missle crisis and so on. Notice how there was no Vietnam war memorial in Fallout 3?

Edit: I am glad we agree. I want to see AK-47s and Browning .50 cal Machine guns again.

The timeline divergence per se doesn't rule out modern weapons or anything that the developers hadn't ruled out already. There's a big chance that many of the people living today may have been born in the Fallout Universe, but their life's are completely different. There's also a big chance that many of the weapons we have today have been in the Fallout universe, there's just this little thing called market economy that affects quite a lot in these kinds of things.

If the world has stuck with the 50's aesthetics and ideals they probably have held on to it. If people loved and trusted everything that felt 50's they bought it, if new cars or weapons were introduced to the markets and people didn't buy them their production seized as it does in our world. If you don't make profit you don't continue the production, instead you do market research to see what consumers really want and you produce something that the consumers will buy.

Some people probably think that it's a stupid thing to do but contrast it to our world. We have Apple products that people worship like they were gods, even though there are a lot better versatile products in the market. People are ready to pay more for something that the pleases their eye and functions easily over the more versatile products. After other producers acknowledge this they copy their competitors design to some degree and the whole market becomes distorted until someone innovates the next thing that consumers want.

I would like the combat shotgun(FO3) to have a full auto mod.

I think a Combat shotgun in the next game or DLC could have at least 2 mods. For its bare appearance it would have a 4-6 shotgun clip, straight magazine that you would find on most assault rifles only larger to houe the shells. Mods would be drum magazine and full auto. Maybe a resistant hull for better weapon health for the third mod. I'm not sure which shotgun your referring to but I always wanted to have that 12 drum shotgun magazine to empty hell on my enemies. I think there was a mod for it too.

To me teh divergence does not mean similar weapons dont exist in their Universe. If you think about it many of teh Weapons Manufacturers of our time were still for teh most part already present before WWII, also car companies and etc, but that does not matter for this discussion. So if the companies are already in motion whats to say that similar people or the same people, in teh case of higher ups and it being "family" run ish and on a "connection basis" like many places of work business etc. dont get the same jobs and develop similar weapons adn weapon platforms.

Im not saying put the M16 in the game, Im saying the Garand was already made, so whats to say the guns dont eveolve in similar ways. I would like guns to like modern guns, I dont care if they dont ahve modern names, just give me a variety of weapons, that are not stupid or something cause we are all stuck in teh 50's in Fallout.

But seriously, gimme a TAR-21, and a AUG. Oh and if you could seriously give me a Beowulf, and a L85A1, and a FAL

You do realize that earliest M16 style rifle was in the 50s right? It also came very close to being accepted into the U.S. Military.

Yes I did know this, not that it was nearly accepted but I did know prototypes were being made well before it ever made a debut.

Also I dont really know if you were talking to me but I'd just say that, adn that reinforces the point that early version of modern weapons were already in the works so whats to say that similar weapons with similar or completely different names develop.

Guess I didn't read into that post close enough. I'm still really angsty over Bethesda's "interpretation" of the Fallout setting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Desert_Eagle
The Desert Eagle was not made in the 1950's.....

Also any and all firearms should be allowed in, there are so many out out there that it would be a sin not to let them in. They already have done it, not very well but they have.

I could live with real life fire arm in fallout. The Chinese assault rifle in fo3 was a AK-74 made in 1974 i think thats past the time split. Even if they don t name them right at least make them shoot the right round. Assult Carbine says M-4 all over it but why a 5mm round????? They should keep the 50s movie looking energy weapons lol they make me laugh. The alien weapons look the best

That's why I said "after the 50's"


Chinese assault rifle is probably inspired by the real-life Type 56 (made in 1956) a chinese copy of the AK-47 (made in 1947), but the weapon in Fallout 3 is neither of these, it is fictional, it just has similarites to these real weapons, but really it doesn't look like them.

This (above) is essenitally the best way to distill this issue down. It is clear that the Chinese Assualt Rifle is an AK family weapon. The AK has been produced in so many forms, both by the Soviets/Russians and by all the licensed (and unlicensed) countries, it's basically ubiquitous around the world. Each model has it's own distinct design features that make it different from the others, but they are all *basically* the same weapon. While the CAR in game is clearly an AK family weapon, one from the group of Chinese AK clones, it has some features that differentiate it from other AKs and also other Chinese AK copies.

The basic Chinese AK is the Type 56, a pretty true copy of the oringal AK-47, complete with milled reciever. Later, the Chinese switched to the stamped reciever, much like the second generation Soviet AKM rifle. All four of these rifles are in the Soviet intermediate "assualt rifle" round, the 7.62x39mm. Now our CAR is in a NATO caliber, for whatever unspecified reason, the NATO 5.56x45mm. Also unique to our CAR is the absence of the fully enclosed front sight post, a feature of ALL Chinese AK derivative copies. Our CAR has the paritally enclosed front sight, more like all the eastern european AK copies.

To sum it up, the Chinese Assualt Rifle is a fictional weapon in the FO universe, an Avtomat Kalashnikova family weapon, manufactured by Communist China at some point between 1947 and 2077. So, to say it is not an AK is not neccessarily correct, just as it is not neccessarily any more correct to all it an AK-47.

-Gunny out.

Guess I didnt see that, anyways I wouldn't call the Deagle iconic. Now the Ak-47 and the m-16 yeah, now they are iconic.

I respectfully disagree chinese assult rifle had a metal frame for the stock with nothing in the middle for a lighter overall weapon. Only wood on that rifle was where one would hold it on the barrel just like the ak-74. i d have to think the type 56 would have a wood stalk. i d need to see a pic. Pluse it fired the 5.56 just like the ak 74 if it was the type 56 they d make it shoot a 7.43 they make up something close to 7.62 IMO

http://www.imfdb.org/images/b/b4/ChineseType56.jpg
http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/assault/as01/ak47_3.jpg

They look pretty identical, no? Hence "copies".
Reason I am saying Type 56 is mostly that it's chinese and already looks enough like the AK-47, AK-74 or whatever gun is in the game. But there are many things that arn't the same, exlcuding how much bulkier the weapon is, the stock, the foregrip and the barrel aren't the same as the AK weapons. Also both weapons using 5.56 is just a matter of convenience, instead of littering the wasteland with loads of different. The american assault rifle in Fallout 3 is pretty much an H&K G3 right? It uses 7.62? But in the game it uses 5.56?
But it still doesn't matter, because the weapon isn't an Type 56, AK-47 or AK-74, Beth just drew inspiration from them when making a chinese assault rifle, because the chinese army has used AK-copies like since the People's Republic was formed! The weapon was made to help remind you it's a chinese weapon, that's why it reminds of an AK-47/Type 56

roger do one of those links with the ak 74 I m way too dumb to learn all that link stuff. its probaby super easy and no one ever showed me. Wait I did do it on gamebattles some scrubs said they won but got slapped and I took pics of the scores. I always hoped I wouldn t have to try to use them, but those scrubs forced me to. It took me like 3 or 4 hour to get pics to picture pail then send gb the ticket with the link the link never worked and we never got the win. It was a despute and we crushed them. Thats why if you could just do the link think with the ak 74 it would be really easy for u i bet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-74 It's not in 5.56. It's still just an AK, but in a smaller caliber. You guys do know it doesn't really take that much to change the caliber on one of these weapons? It's essentially the same weapon as the AKM.

Let me make it as clear as I can for those who don't yet grasp this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AKM=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_56_assault_rifle=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-74=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Galil=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valmet_M76=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zastava_M70=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47#Variants. They all have the same basic operating system, the same basic layout and are for all intents and purposes, one large family of the same weapon.

@ Savagebeatings: Look at some of the picks above. The barrels look very different on some of them. The gas tube on the CAR looks alot more like the Galil's gas tube than any type56/AKM i've ever seen, but it's a minor design detail. The same with buttstocks and foregrips. Even on real soviet AKs they varied pretty greatly. The thing that sticks out the most to me is the safety/fire selector is waayyy to the rear of where it is on any AK series weapon, But I suppose we can chalk some of this stuff up to artistic license on the part of the weapon skin artist. They knew they were making a fictitious AK series rifle so they took some liberties with the estheitcs. I'm not sweating the details. It's an AK series weapon, with no real world exact counterpart, and always will be. These kids that can't get the gist of this obviously need to study up on their firearms history a little better. Maybe even shoot one, if they can. Then they'll be in a better position to contribute to an informed conversation about it. Peace out, homey :thumbsup:

-Gunny out.