A little "off-topic" I guess, but I found this video of something that looks like a Gauss Canon, if you get what I mean? I know the site's in Norwegian, but according to what the article says, it's an electromagnetic canon... just thought I'd share this with you all if you didn't already know..

Link: http://www.vgtv.no/#!id=49320

I think its called a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RailgunThe Gauss Weapons in Fallout 3 and New Vegas are just energy weapons.

The M72 Gauss Rifle is another story

The Guass Rifles in Fallout 3 and New Vegas is an example of how dumb Bethesda really is, at least the guys that worked on Fallout 3.

"magazines containing both batteries and ammunition, this gun requires the user to load in the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Microfusion_cell needed to energizes and magnetize each pre-loaded standard round contained in the magazine attached to the side of the weapon." Emil Pagliarulo

So what Emil is saying is that each Gauss Weapon you come across in Fallout 3 and New Vegas contains within it, an unlimited number is 2mm sold rounds. How the hell does that work?

Seriously just call it an energy rifle vs of the Gauss Rifle and move on. Then bring back the M72 gauss rifle and the 2mm EC round. Don't make up nonsensical bullcrap.

You need both a power source and solid ammunition to make the weapon work. And the power requirements are huge while the ammunition can be tiny, so it actually makes more sense to have the GR consume MFC's rather than solid rounds. Coding in some sort of dual ammunition system would be too complicated anyway. Fallout 3 is ridiculous in lots of ways, but this isn't one of them.

Didn't you read my post? Cause clearly you didn't. The Gauss Rifles in Fallout 3 and New Vegas as explained by Emil Pagliarulo do shoot a solid projectile, but those are already built into the gun. So therefore the guns have unlimited ammo built into them. So that is stupid.

Also it would be no trouble at all to simply have the old 2mm EC rounds. Instead of making up something stupid to make up for not making two different ammos for one weapon, they simply could have said "it is an energy weapon." Or better yet just made them use the 2mm EC.

Way to miss the point, genius. You either have to assume unlimited energy or unlimited ammunition. Pick your poison. The Fallout 2 version is just as unrealistic since it chooses the former, so which to choose is a gameplay issue rather than a technical/world building one.

No because the Ammo for the M72 Gauss rifle is both energy and solid projectile in one, 2mm EC

Uh no, that's not how coil/rail guns work. They don't use chemical cartridges. There's no propellant. You need an external power source to accelerate the round down the barrel. If they could build a multi-megajoule capactor into the a tiny 2mm round, then why would they even need bulky microfusion cells? Your "theory" isn't even consistent with Fallout canon.

Cause you need energy to power the coils within the gun. The 2mm EC is both projectile and energy cell. The gun doesn't have a magic power source built into it.

The same reason why the Gauss rifle needs energy cells in Fallout 3. To power the coils. Well the M72 2mm EC round is a projectile and powercell in one.

And how is my "theory" not consistent with canon?

Read what I wrote above and realize why what you just said made no sense.

If pre-war Fallout tech had the ability to miniaturize a power source capable of powering a coilgun into a BB sized space, it would instantly obsolete all other technology. Why the hell would you use heavy, bulky microfusion cells to power anything when you could just use your magical 2mm super capacitors?

The Gausss Rifle could have been new, the Gauss Rifles unique 2mm EC round could be more powerful than an average powercell. The Tommy gun is an awesome weapon, so why didn't every GI get one during WW2 and Korea? Why didn't every one get an M60 during Vietnam?

The EC could stand for Electrochemical. Also do you have any idea how hard it would be to load a rifle with a 2mm projectile? It is powercell and projectile in one. Pretty much an excepted explination. It is a logical one and doesn't contradict canon at all.

And who the Hell said the whole thing was just 2mm? The projectile is 2mm the whole thing combined is bigger.

Yeah and it could by powered by unicorns and rainbows too. You aren't talking about "more powerful" here, you're talking about something with several orders of magnitude more energy density than the most powerful portable power source available (microfusion cells). So even accounting for Fallout super-science, it's ridiculous.


If it's "electrochemical" it's not a "gauss" weapon by definition.


These two statements have nothing to do with each other.


It's neither logical, nor consistent with canon. It's basically a bunch of stuff you made up that isn't supported by anything in-game.


And the evidence for this is? That's right, nothing. Not that it matters anyway. The Gauss Rifle in Fallout 2 used a 20 round magazine. Even if we assume that the rounds weren't actually 2mm, but were individually the size of a (say) a 7.62x51mm round (casing, propellant and all), it would STILL be ridiculously more advanced than anything else available.

So you seriously think that people were loading their rifles with tinny 2mm projectiles? That doesn't work.

All you got is that "The tech to shrink the powercells doesn't exist in Fallout." You have nothing to prove that the projectile is only 2mm in size.

We don't know how Fallout tech works. Yet a projectile and cell together works alot better than "The guns have magic power supply or ammo supply." I find it funny that you said "Yeah and it could by powered by unicorns and rainbows too." You have no problems with unicorn rainbow power when it comes to the Gauss Rifles in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

So, according to you, loading small projectiles into a magazine is an insurmountable technical obstacle, but creating a radically advanced power source (relative to everything else available) is not. Right.


Except, you know, the game calling it a 2mm projectile.


Gauss rifles use the standard power source (microfusion cells) in F3/NV so I don't see how that's "unicorns and rainbows"? If you're referring to the ammunition, the choice of not modeling ammo consumption as well is most likely a game engine limitation or deliberate design choice rather than anything more significant.

Tell me, do you also think that the fact that your main character didn't have to eat or drink in F1/F2 meant that he'd conquered hunger and thirst too?

Ok take a normal "Bullet" any bullet. Most people would call the whole thing cartridge and all a "bullet." Yet the bullet part is the lead or steel that goes down the barrel of the gun. The cartridge gets ejected from the gun. A bullet's caliber does not apply to the cartridge size. So a 2mm projectile is the bullet. The cartridge (the powercell part) is bigger.

Again, even if you assume that the round + power source was the size of a standard battle rifle cartridge, it would _still_ be worlds away more advanced than anything else. Of course, your theory would require that there'd be an ejection port and some mechanical action to eject the spend power source (anolagous to that in conventional firearms), of which there's no evidence for either.

The 2mm EC could have been the size of a normal powercell. How do you know there is no ejection port on the M72 Gauss Rifle? There isn't one on the laser weapons in Fallout or Fallout 2. We can't collect the empty power cells like we can in Fallout 3 and New Vegas. The Gauss Rifles and Energy Weapons in Fallout 3 and New Vegas have ejection ports, so we can assume the ones in the originals also have them.

There was no need to be that detailed with the orginals to show ejection ports, game graphics and engine wouldn't really support it and as I already said we don't collect the empty cells.

Going back to another one of your posts


So if you buy into the idea the M72 Gauss Rifle has a built in power supply that never runs out. Then why have microfusion cells at all? Why aren't all energy and plasma weapons built with the same built in unlimited power supply that the M72 has?

It can't be size of a normal power cell because the original gauss rifle had a pretty standard sized 20 round magazine.


You don't need an ejection port for laser weapons because there's nothing to eject. The cell IS the magazine.


No they don't. You remove the spent cell manually.


Uh no, I don't buy into the idea that the gauss rifle has an unlimited power supply that never runs out. My point is that if you take the in-game mechanics at face value, both Fallout 2 and 3/NV are equally unrealistic. The reasonable assumption is that the weapon has limited power and limited ammunition, and both must be replenished from time to time, but this isn't modelled for obvious reasons.

Could be smaller than a normal power cell, point is it isn't 2mm big. The caliber only applies to the bullet not the cartrage.



The Energy weapons in Fallout 3 and New Vegas have ejection ports. So there goes that idea of yours that they don't need them. The simple fact is there was no need to be that detailed when showing the guns back in the originals. If the cell is the magazine, then how the hell do you get the empty cell out of the gun?

And a Magazine is what you put bullets into, it loads into the gun from the bottom. A clip loads into the top of the gun. So an individual bullet or powercell is not "A magazine" onto itself.


That's your opinion. You tried to use canon to prove your point, and that didn't work out. It is very reasonable that in the Fallout Universe they combined a powercell with a 2mm projectile. After all a coil/rail gun right now is Huge, yet in Fallout it is rifle size.

And as I've said three times now even if its the size of a standard cartridge, it's still ridiculous.


Obviously a power cell is not a "magazine" in the conventional sense, but it's depicted in the same way.


No, they do not. Where do you see the ejection port in this video of the gauss rifle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWwsBq48gxk

Or on the laser rifle:

http://images.wikia.com/fallout/images/9/90/AER9LASERRIFLE.png

Or on the plasma rifle:

http://images.wikia.com/fallout/images/6/6c/PlasmaRifle.png

Of course there's no need to have one on energy weapons because that wouldn't make any sense. You'd only need one if you had a disposeable power source attached to the round (which doesn't even exist in any energy weapon), which is totally unsupported by evidence.

Repeating a failed argument is not a very good strategy.

Ok then, why is it when I open up my inventory in Fallout New Vegas. Why do I have empty power cells in it? How would you get the spent power cell out of the damn gun? What it all just goes away when you pull the trigger? Then why do I have empty power cells I can recharge?


Your opinion. And your opinions aren't facts. You can't even explain how spent power cells are removed from the gun, if there is no ejection port.

Ok, this is the point where I just have to shake my head.

Do you even play this game? Do you notice that when you reload an energy weapon you remove the spent cell and replace it with a fresh one.

Gee, I wonder where those spent cells are coming from?


I don't feel the need to explain this phenomenon for the same reason that I don't feel the need to explain that the sky is blue or water is wet.

You got me on that one when it comes to Fallout 3 and New Vegas. The laser rifles in the originals use a whole cell with a shot, yet you don't reload the gun after every shot like you do in Fallout 3 and New Vegas. You load a bunch of cells into the gun and fire till its out.

So its a fundamental change in how Energy weapons work from the originals and the new Fallouts.

Edit: I will wait till your responce before I correct this post ^

The originals work the same way as NV, it's just that you didn't see the reload animation. It doesn't really make sense for one shot to consume one cell. A MFC in F2 looked to be about the size of a car battery, there's no way you're "loading" more than one at a time. Each cell was probably good for several shots, it's just that the game allowed you to buy/move cells in 1 shot increments (just like NV). It's not realistic, but then neither is not losing ammo when you discard a partially used magazine with a conventional firearm either.

The game doesn't model everything in full detail, because it's too tedious for the player to micromanage everything.

Yeah I realised my mistake. You got me on a really really bad day. I see what you meant when you said "The cell is the Megazine."

Energy weapons take one cell per-shot. Both in the Originals and New ones, you load a bunch of cells into the weapon. I was wrong about the ejection ports, as in the empty cells come out after every shot. All the empty cells get taken out after being fired.

So lets go back to gauss rifles. You don't like the idea of the powercell and the 2mm projectile being combined because you don't think the M72 Gauss Rifle can fit so many cells. Yet other energy weapons can hold alot of powercells.

So if a normal energy rifle can hold alot of cells. Then why can't an M72 gauss rifle hold a bunch of 2mm EC cells the same size as normal energy cells?

I can't remember how many shots the M72 could take before it needs to be reloaded. I also rarely use energy weapons.

In New Vegas you load one cell, and that cell lasts for several shots. Look at the laser/plasma reload animation for an example of this. In the originals you don't see it on screen, but it's reasonable to assume it worked the same way there. The game doesn't measure energy weapon ammunition in "cells", it measures it in "shots". When you pick up EW ammo, you get multiple shots per pickup.

If they really wanted to do this properly, they'd have a cell be worth a certain amount of "power" (say 100 points) and have weapons consume varying amounts of power per shot. Presumably they thought something like that was too much of a pain in the ass.