Really good idea. I'm waiting someone to combine all these kinds of reality mods and release an immersion pack. Like FCOM combines the four great mods.

Love this and the other immersion mods that I was directed to via Delte's thread (http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=983734), but I was hoping to see about a "possible" bug, and perhaps a new feature for v1.6...

Bug(?): New game, configured all my mod settings pop-ups, saved and exited (to be able to import a TNR face directly onto my new character... heheheh)... came back in, tweaked the hair/skin color, and began the opening sequences. Now, I'm at the end of the Sanctum and ever since I was still in the main goblin room, my fatigue is plummeted, I'm tripping and stumbling everywhere, and I have no clue why except for "lack of sleep". (Fully fed, been snacking on rat meat constantly from the get-go, and my encumbrance has never peaked above 1/2 of my max... so the only culprit left is being tired.)

Is there a way to come in to the game and stay at 100% rested from the point that you separate from the entourage (the one point where you actually begin acting on your own), so that you aren't completely dead on your feet before you even make it out of the tunnels? Or did I miss something in the setup somewhere? (Note: this was with a completely 'vanilla' configuration for RealSleepExtended v1.5)

Feature Request: I see you have a variable set to be able to negate the penalty given for not sleeping in a bed... But I was wondering if there was a way you could set it to work the opposite way, as well? (No penalty if outdoors / Penalty if indoors)

My character may be comfortable slipping through the workings of the big city... and though he may not be a Bosmer treehugger, he still prefers having open sky over his head rather than rafters. I honestly envision him setting out a bedroll across the pavilion rooftop in front of Slash'n'Smash, rather than partaking in a bed at The Merchants Inn or, gods forbid, The Tiber Septim. Having a fitful night from having to sleep in an enclosed space would just make sense, and shore up his need to get the heck out of wherever he's at and back out into the open air. Maybe not caustrophobic, but still not completely comfortable indoors (or worse... underground) for extended periods of time.

Now to head back in, and try to get out of the sewers without landing on my face more than once... heheheh.

I doubt this is due to RSE, because RSE does not (directly) affect your fatigue at all. It only reduces your attributes. Now, fatigue is dependant on your Endurance, and if RSE reduces your Endurance too much, the max fatigue will be reduced as well.

But it doesn't seem that this is what's happening to you. My guess is that you have also installed Realistic Fatigue as well, and with that your fatigue will start plummeting when running and fighting if your encumberance passes 1/2 of max. Generally, that's something you will have to live with if you want Realistic Fatigue running. I do, and I love that mod.

Anyway, it is quite easy to check if RSE is the culprit. Open your console and write "set RSE.disabled to 1". That will disable the sleep component of the mod, and immediately restore any reduced attributes. This setting will be kept until your next reload, or until you write "set RSE.disabled to 0". If you want it permanently disabled, look up that line in the ini file and change the 0 to a 1. So if you disable RSE and your fatigue is still problematic, another mod is the reason - and I believe that is the case.


As written above, I think your problem lies elsewhere. With default settings (as you use), an attribute with base value of 40 (typical for a new character) will be reduced with a bit less than 1 per every 3 hours of tiredness, so you can be quite tired before it creates much of a problem. But, if it is a problem, I think the best solution is to temporarily disable it by setting RSE.disabled to 1.

That was a feature I haven't thought about, but I can see the reason for a role player and it wouldn't be difficult to implement, so I will look into it when I get some spare time.

Anyway, thanks for the comments

Okay... that makes sense. Lack of sleep, coupled with hovering around 1:2 encumbrance was stacking the -End with the fatigue loss... Tired and weak. Which kinda makes sense... what with the hour, and the likely loss of regular sleep prior to the breakout. But, it doesn't make it easy, as there's no access to a bed for quite some time (bloody forever, when you consider the hill I'm gonna have to climb once I'm out of there...) and without being able to carry much of anything with me means I may not even be able to carry enough junk to afford a day at the inn. (Poor Simplicia is just going to have to give up that beroll, I'm afraid. No coin for a room, let alone purchasing my own roll from someone else...)

I think getting used to not having a viable/reliable encumbrance will be the toughest part for me... and I'm pretty sure there aren't any viable 'backpacks' for Oblivion, beyond purely cosmetic doodads or bottomless Bag of Holding-styled singularities (which I refuse to use).

It just occured to me that RSE is somewhat to blame here after all. In the script, it checks whether the player is in jail, and if so, set the sleepLevel (the counter of hours since fully rested) to 8 when getting out of jail - to simulate that sleep in jail is not very good. This means that a newly created character will start out as if having been awake for 8 hours already, and will therefore become sleepy pretty fast.

I think I will do something about that, to be nicer to a newly created character, and make it more realistic for other characters as well. In the meantime, you can open the console and write "set RSE.sleepLevel to 0". This will keep the mod enabled, but make the player fully rested.


I think there are some, but I'be never looked for them. I like the way Realistic Fatigue forces me to keep an eye on the encumberance and try to keep it below 60-70% at worst, and how that makes me have to choose the most valuable loot only, and how I stumble towards a town after a day's work in a ruin.

self-promo: Inventory is a backpack mod.
sorry to pipe-in, theNiceOne.
cheers!

While IiaB doesn't increase your carrying capacity, it does offer a viable way to drop everything for combat - which is fantastic.

@TheNiceOne: Okay, I thought there might be something to my nodding off before I met my first living goblin... Heheheh.

As to encumbrance, I don't quite like how I'm falling over and having difficulty when I'm nowhere near my "limit"... I can understand a loss in stability, but getting in a collapse>stand>collapse loop when not even at 60-75% of total capacity seems a little ridonculous (sorry, daughter's really into Bolt these days). If you want to reduce what a character can carry, then just adjust the max, then if you're close to it, expect some problems keeping upright.

But, I've made a minor adjustment to Realistic Fatique to hopefully draw out the "safe zone" a bit further towards Max Encumbrance (not much, just a smidge so that I can actually get out of the sewers with more than my light armor, shortsword/dagger, light shield, and anything else that is below 2wt each and still worth something) Either way, I'm sure I'll be lightening a few store inventories once I can get myself established in the city. But, that's not discussion of RealSleepExt., heheheh.

@kuertee: I actually gave IiaB a once over, and originally discounted it as a "gimmicky" cosmetic backpack... But I think I'll give it a second look. I'll post my inquiries about the workings of IiaB on your [RELz] thread. Heheheh.

No problem at all. I have considered adding that mod of yours myself, but found that I like the feeling of having tougher fights on my way back with full loot, instead of easily dropping the loot whenever a fight starts.

Its OK by me that you discuss this here, but I think you will get better help if you go to ABO's thread (the creator of Realistic Fatigue) and discuss it there.

I am still using an old version of Realistic Fatigue, because I don't want the enemies to be affected by it (I want though fights), so I'm to no help with the settings for the latest version.

Version 2.0 of Real Sleep Extended is now available (http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=5170 and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24649)

It has quite a number of enhancements, and is even more configurable than before. The main changes being:

* An omod installation script lets you choose all the settings.
* Sleep effectiveness outside is now governed by Willpower instead of Agility
* Sleep effectiveness inside may be reduced for players who want to roleplay a ranger character.
* Bed type (Bed/Bedroll or other) now matters. The min/max effectiveness of each can be set in the ini, governed by your Agility.
* You can now choose whether a vampire needs sleep or not. If he needs sleep, sleep during daytime will be most effective.
* Prisoners are no longer punished, except for having to sleep on a bedroll.
* When starting a new game, the player starts out fully rested. So it is easier to complete the starter dungeon without becoming sleepy.
* The dynamic timescale now have several additional factors: Standing still, walking, running, swimming or riding.
* Sleep now checks for the global variable EatDrinkSleep and disables itself if this is 0.
* Several default values have been tweaked.
* The ini file can now be stored in data\ or data\ini\.


Not exactly as requested, but instead of coming out of the preason counting as 8hrs since last sleep (in 1.5), you now start the game fully rested, which means that you can go 4 hours more than normal before getting tired. In other words, you can go 12 more in-game hours than in 1.5 before getting tired.


This is now added with a number of settings.

You have indoorEffectiveness for you to set to 50% (or whatever you think is fitting), and outdoorMin/MaxEffectiveness that you can set to 100. This will make your Bosmer sleep twice as good outdoors as indoors.

You now also have bedMin/MaxEffectiveness, bedrollMin/MaxEffectiveness and elsewhereMin/MaxEffectiveness, setting how effective sleep is inside beds, bedrolls or elsewhere (altars or anywhere if you use mods that let you sleep anywhere). For your Bosmer you may want to set the bed effectiveness quite a bit below 100 and the bedroll effectiveness to 100.

Will try out the new version.

About Dynamic time scales: does not mods read the time scale used by the game engine? Say I am using a mod that changes the timescale dynamically do I have to set your timescales in the ini too to get it to work properly?

Thank you for your very immersive mod

I'm not sure I understand the question - but I'll try to explain.

There are (at least) two ways to fiddle with the timescale in Oblivion. The one that has been generally used in the past, is to simply open the console and type "set timescale to ##". This will immediately change your timescale to the desired number, and be saved with your savegame. There are a number of mods that do this for you, simply by modifying the timescale variable (Frans is one example), but there never has been much reason to use a mod for this.

But lately, several mods that dynamically changes the timescale in scripts have been created. I think it all started after a thread here discussing dynamic timescales, at least that was what inspired me to add this feature. Not long after, kuertee's Auto-save and time and Tekuromoto's Time Manager was created, doing the same as my RSE, though none of the three do the dynamic timescale exactly the same, and all of the three have additional features.

All of those three dynamic timescale mods will simply override any static setting of timescale (from console or Frans etc.), since they set the timescale any time they detect possible changes. But since all three do this in scripts, they will compete, and probably be busy changing the timescale back and forth, so you must never use more than one of those three dynamic timescale mods at the same time.

But note that both Tekuromoto's Time Manager and my Real Sleep Extended can be used with its dynamic timescale feature turned off - that is, you can use the rest of Time Manager's features while using the dynamic timescale from RSE, or use RSE's sleep component while using Time Manager's dynamic timescale.

So if you want a dynamic timescale in your game, you must just look at the alternatives and decide which one you like best. Here's a short comparision between the three (for ease, I call them AST, TM and RSE)

What they check for (in addition to their default timescale):

Type of outdoor cell: AST, TM
Interior: AST, RSE, TM
Sneaking: AST, RSE
Combat: AST, RSE, TM
Running: RSE
Walking: RSE
Riding: RSE
Swimming: RSE
Not moving: RSE

RSE also has the advantage that it is not hardcoded in which order it checks for timescale to use, but always use the smallest applicable timescale. Ex: AST and TM both assume combat timescale is lower than Interior timescale (at least I think that is the order), so when in combat while inside they will always use the combat timescale and never interior timescale. But RSE will use the lowest of the two - and personally I happen to prefer the interior timescale to be lower than the combat timescale.

In addition, with RSE you can set any of the cases to "0", which means "don't care". For default settings, I have Running, Walking, Riding and Swimming to "0", meaning that while the player does any of this, any other applicable timescale will be used (default if not in combat, standing or inside).


Now, I only know RSE from the inside, so I may be incorrect with some of the above, and the two others may have some other timescale advantage I don't know of, but I believe this comparision is fairly accurate.

hey theNiceOne (and others).
my dynamic timescale feature can also be turned off - so the streamlinesque (auto-save at intervals, t-pose remover, pcb at intervals) and other (alarm clock, IHOURSTORESPAWNCELL setter) components of Auto save and time can be used on their own.

i really like this idea method of determining timescale, theNiceOne. but don't worry - i won't be implementing it in mine.

anyway, i piped in for two reasons:
1. thanks for adoping my EatDrinkSleep global variable suggestion.
RealSleepExtended mod should now be compatible with my Alternatives to death and reload mod.
i.e. sleep penalties are reset and removed when the player is convalescing in an inn after being saved from death.

2. unfortunately, i have since found out (tejon gave me a heads up in his thread) that
there was actually already a variable used for this purpose: cobSigNoPcNeeds
its a global variable set in COBL.
so if you wish to make RSE aware of other COBL mods you may wish to check for this as well.
since this global variable is in COBL, the use RunScriptLine to query it may be necessary.

EDIT: i think EatDrinkSleep is still a valid global variable to use.
so i support both EatDrinkSleep and cobSigNoPcNeeds in my mods.

cheers, theNiceOne!
:foodndrink:

Thanks for the update TheNiceOne, the extra timescale settings are great.


My weak willed character is going to love this. I agree with the change though.

Thank you for your most elucidate answer, much appreciated. TM also adds town timescale; but you convinced me - I will now start using yours since I am somewhat of a svcker for options

Good to know. It means that a player may use the other, non-overlapping features of all three, and disable the timescale part of two of them.

Thanks, that's maybe the only feature of my timescale mod that is entirely my own idea I don't worry though, as you are welcome to implement it in yours as well if you want to. In one way, there's a kind of competition between our mods, and its of course good to create a mod that is used a lot - but the positive exchange of ideas on this forum is just so much more valuable - including the help I got from you with GoldAdjustment So if you want to, feel free to use the idea in your mod.

One comment, neither setting RSE.disabled to 1 or EatDrinkSleep to 0 will make the player fully refreshed when they are changed back. It would be very easy for me to do, but I'm a bit unsure about doing it. Maybe for EatDrinkSleep, but not for disabled, as the latter are more intended for manual, temorary disabling the mod?


Thanks. I kind of had this in the back of my mind, but I will check it out. I will avoid making RSE COBL-dependant though. Not that I'm having anything against COBL - which I use - but I still don't want the dependancy.


TM's town timescale is what I refer to as "Type of outdoor cell" check. What it does, is to check the name of the outdoor cell, and if it is NOT Tamriel, or any of the Oblivion cells, or a couple of others, the mod assumes that the cell is within a town, but there's no sure way of checking that. And that's the reason I chose not to add this check, as any outdoor cell created by new-landscape mods that happen to have a new name will then be treated as a town cell. At least this is my understanding of the issue, though it is by all means not a big issue.

ahhh cool...i only check for a small number of conditions (sneaking, combat, outdoor moving, outdoor stopped, indoor) for my timescale changes so its quite easy to manage.
but my condition checking for my Auto first/third person view can get quite convoluted:
one condition (i.e. sneaking has greater priority than combat, and outdoor/indoor view has the least importance, etc...).
i may use your method (i.e. after all the checks, if any conditions require a 3rd-person view use it) in that mod.

re: gold adjustment. this was very well done.
a lot of thought would have gone into your current version.
definitely helps lessen the gold vein.



correct. however, tekuromoto may be detecting for the worldspace in SI also (i don't have it so i can't support it).
so if they are the only 2 that tekuromoto checks to set outdoor timescale, these locations will be set as indoor: oblivion planes, garrdian's tears outdoor cell, pale pass (bruma royalty quest) outdoor cell, dreamscape outdoor cell, the arena, the painter's quest's outdoor cell, and others.

I can't seem to get sneaking time adjustment to work - all the others adjust the time scale fine.

I tried with vanilla ini as well just to make sure I didn't made a mistake.

I tried with one digit and two - putting a zero infront. Having 03 on fighting works so at least it does not brake anything that I could see.

Also - I have deactivated all other time scale adjustment mods.

I believe it did work in the 1.5 Real sleep because I remember checking it against one of Willieseas clocks.

Theese are my settings now:
set RSE.timeDefault to 60
; Set timescale when standing still - i.e. not moving. Default 5
set RSE.timeStanding to 15
; Set timescale when in combat. Default 10
set RSE.timeCombat to 03
; Set timescale when sneaking. Only applies while NOT running. Default 10
set RSE.timeSneaking to 8
; Set timescale when inside. Default 5
set RSE.timeInterior to 12
; Set timescale when walking. Default 0 (not used)
set RSE.timeWalking to 45
; Set timescale when running. Default 0 (not used)
set RSE.timeRunning to 50
; Set timescale when swimming (and moving). Default 0 (not used)
set RSE.timeSwimming to 30
; Set timescale when riding (and moving). Default 0 (not used)
set RSE.timeRiding to 55

I have never had any problem with sneaking, but there is one catch: the mod will NOT treat you as sneaking if you are running at the same time! That's a deliberate decision, because personally, I tend to run and sneak at the same time when crossing large, but dangerous distances - and I don't want the low sneak timescale to be applied then.

A leading 0 shouldn't matter at all.

It is important to disable any other DYNAMIC timescale mod, but it doesn't matter if you have the old-type static timescale mods. The static ones will set the timescale when the game is started and leave it at that, while the dynamic timescale mods (like this) will constantly set the timescale in-game.


It is very easy to check if RSE is working as intended with its timescales. Open the console, and write "set RSE.debug to 1", alternatively change the 0 to 1 for this line in the ini file. Then, also in the console, write "tdt" (toggle debug text). With this combination, RSE will write a line with the new timescale each time it changes it.

Just set the values back when you're finished with the check. Note that if you set RSE.debug to 1 in the console, the value in the ini will be re-applied as soon as you load a savegame.

EDIT:It reverts to walking or default if I disable walking time scale. I wonder what it is I have done to break the mod Load order shouldn't matter should it? I have reinstalled the original, lets see how that works this time around (the esp too). End Edit

EDIT2:Nope, it has stopped working for some reason. Very strange. Will check conflict now. End Edit

EDIT3: No conflicts. I will try a few other things and see if that will kick start it... End Edit.

FINAL EDIT: Nope, nothing I try will start the sneak variable. Is there a command to do it ingame? I used Set RSE.Timesneaking to 8 and it computed but did not make any difference, strange. Still, it is a wonderfull mod END EDIT



Will do!

Thank you. EDITED post - check above.

Real Sleep Extended 2.1 is now out. This is essentially a bug-fix for Locksley's sneak timescale problem:

Sorry I didn't reply before. I didn't notice your updates to the previous post, so I thought everything was OK.

But today I finally had time to play some, and noticed the problem myself, and found the bug. The code that detects sneak was supposed to check that the player was not running, but was instead checking against a completely unrelated variable. So sometimes you would get sneak timescale, but most often not - as you have noticed.

Load order doesn't matter at all for this mod. It may be the first mod in your load order, or the last without any difference. This is generally true for all mods that only contain completely new scripts.

Thanks for giving the feedback. Hope it works with 2.1

One problem with this mod: if using the Timescale settings in the ini file it messes up the Where Spirits Have Lease quest.
The stage where Mr. Benirus opens the sealed portal only works with a Timescale of 30. I have both a generic script that modifies Timescale and the UOP does it specifically for this quest, but it seems the ini values override any scripted Timescale. It also overrides from the console.

So maybe scripted Timescale would be better? If so the only problem is determining which script has highest priority.

EDIT: Or, if possible, just make an exception for AnvilBenirusManorBasemant "Benirus Manor Basemant" [CELL:000147B1] in the ini and set timescale there to 30.

Oh, I thought from the wiki description that the UOP had fixed it so that timescale didn't matter. But I can pretty easily check, not only for cell, but also for quest stage and set timescale to 30 then. I guess I must do the same check for A Brush with Death too.

UOP does fix it, but the ini file overrules it.
As for A Brush with Death, I've never had any problems with that and I've done *that* quest many times.

Hi,

As mentioned in http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1028563&st=0&gopid=15000418&#entry15000418, I'm in the process of adding support for his http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22272. With RSE, it will work like this:

The hud bar will have two disctintly different states: One when the player is not yet sleepy, and another when he is sleepy.

When you are not yet sleepy, the bar goes from full when fully rested, to empty just before you start getting sleepy. The bar will have yellow color (by default, but it can be adjusted).

When you are sleepy, the bar goes from empty when just a bit tired, to full when reaching maximum level of tiredness. The bar will have orange color (by default).

What I need a bit of help with, is the bar text in those two states. English is not my native language, and I'm unsure of the proper words. For the not-sleepy state, the bar shows how rested you are, but I don't think "restedness" is a proper english word, so do anyone have a suggestion? For the sleepy state I guess "sleepyness" or "tiredness" are OK, but which one is best?



I thought UOP fixed the quest so that the timescale didn't matter. But I will add a fix for this with the new version pretty soon.


Do anyone else have some additions they would like to see in Real Sleep Extended?