i was playing saints row 2 today, and i realized that i enjoyed it far more that gta because it was so much more fun. Gta was all dour and realistic, and all i wanted to do was blow the hell out of stuff. ive seen this topic come up a lot in regard to skyrim, so im wondering your thoughts. would you rather have some kind of ridiculous themes, or all serious and immersive?

I think anyone who thinks enjoyment isn't important should play simulators.

The ultimate realism is the world outside your door. The only reason we play games is because it brings us enjoyment that real life couldn't offer. If you want to live in real life, there is plenty of that all around you. You don't need to go to Skyrim for that.

Gaming is a hobby. Hobbies should be enjoyable. Realism shouldn't be so strong that it detracts from enjoyment.

That being said, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. But yeah, I'll always take enjoyment over anything else.

And what Vallen said. Well put.

There's two issues here:

1) Realism vs Fun Gameplay
2) Tone of setting.

They are both separate elements. I don't mind realism being sacrificed for fun gameplay mechanics, but I don't want Skyrim to be as tongue-in-cheek and over-the-top in tone as Saints Row.

Enjoyable. Striving for realism before gameplay quality is why so many new games are awful.

I did find myself having more fun with SR 2 as well. I think too much realism actually hinders a game more than it helps.

its definitely enjoyment otherwise, why would you play video games, you could just go outside

They are only awful for the people that are bad at them. Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six were tremendously enjoyable when they were closer to realistic. But they were too hard to be easily accessible to the masses, and now we have the "enjoyable" versions that take no skill to be good at.

its all about balance make the game fun but still have a few noteworthy elements of realism in it

I want both, the realism aspect and to be able to do ridiculous stuff. For example yesterday I was playing fallout and launched grenades, mini nukes, and bullet after bullet at a vending machine and it just didn't budge. I thought, what, is it made of some super indestructible titanium alloy or something?? The vault doors should be made out of vending machines! Little things like that take away from the fun of it.
A perfect RPG would have everything real life does, only with the ability to do fantastical stuff like blow up houses, fly in the air, make your own kingdom, and so on.

this is the elder scrolls. realism in TES is like justin bieber and being a male...hehe...get it?

Realism in a RPG equals Enjoyment for me. But we're taking about a fantasy game here, so the meaning of the word is not the same as it is used in real life . . . at least not for me. I define "realism" in a fantasy RPG as immersive and believable within the context of the game's alternate reality.

I don't want at god-like character, no matter how much I've leveled up . . . because that is not realistic, not challenging, and not fun. The favorite part of most RPGs for me is the early part of the game, before my character has leveled up much. That is when the game is the most challenging, because my character is just an average person, who is struggling to survive. But after a few levels, she ends up being better at most skills than most of the NPCs/Creatures, with better weapons, and with better armor. At that point the game becomes a LOT less fun for me. The main reason that I began making my own mods was that I wanted my game to be more realistic (which is why I named my overhauls my Realism Tweaks), and I wanted to see if I could keep my game challenging and fun, as I leveled up. It's a tough balance to achieve, but the end result is a much more enjoyable game for me.

I completely agree with you on the first part. On the second, I feel becoming powerful in the latter stages of the game to be extremely satisfying. Of course, there should quests and enemies tailored for extremely powerful characters. Otherwise you're right, it'd be no fun.

Totally agree that the end-game where you are very powerful is a blast. If you gained no sense of power and progress, it would be the same problem many people had with Oblivion since everything leveled with you.

I do enjoy beginning as an average Joe, however. Wouldn't want things too easy.

How can you compare enjoyment to realism whats to say that people dont find enjoyment in realism. I much prefered GTA IV to saints row 2 because it didnt feel over the top and stupid, saints row just got too boring too quick for me. It shouldn't be hyper-realistic or over the top it should be somewhere in between because hyper-realism is frustrating and over the top stuff gets boring. Hopefully Skyrim gets it right.

Realism and enjoyment are not necessarily opposing factors. I would find it much more fun to have a realistic movement system like Assassin's creed (I said LIKE) than the blocky jumping and skating running of Oblivion. I would rather have cool, but realistic weapons that annoyingly over the top and cheesy looking WOW weapons. I would rather have a realistic crime system than the game unbalancing ability to own all the stuff of anyone you kill in Morrowind.

gta4 was my favorite game, but in a lot of ways it was a step back
San Andreas and saints row were so awesome because you can just do EVERYTHING (saints row, being current gen, obviously moreso)

gta 4 stopped letting you do a little of everything and focused on a lot of a little. (after gta4, driving in any other game feels like [censored]) but now that they improved on the basics of shooting, driving, realism of the city, etc they can expand to have over-the-top (yet somewhat serious) gameplay with hopefully much better customization


so... a nice mix of both. like any good movie

What if I find realism and enjoyment to be the same thing, within reason of course?

Neither, I would rather have better gameplay.

Don't understand why realism is at the opposite end of the spectrum from fun.

I agree with thungrim's distinction of realistic gameplay mechanics as opposed to a realistic or naturalistic tone for the art direction and setting.

• The opposite of realistic gameplay mechanics is ridiculous gameplay mechanics.
  
  
• The opposite of realistic, naturalistic art direction is a stylized, highly fantastical or bizarre art direction.

Either extreme can be fun if well executed, depends on what you are in the mood for.

When I think of a good balance of realism v. fun, I think of Indiana Jones and the Last crusade (also The Lost Ark). Both those movies were slightly goofy and over the top, yet were realistic enough that it was a near perfect balance, something like that would be great for skyrim. Temple of doom goofiness need NOT apply thank you

I always want the game to be more realistic if it will make the game fun and less so otherwise. I don't want to go to the bathroom, take hour to walk anywere,etc but I do want people to act believable,day/night cycles,etc Basically the things they are already doing, some stuff just needs more polish.

It depends honestly how far the realism goes...like if they were to add needing food or sleep into something as complex as Oblivion that to me would be more of a burden than fun but I do enjoy the realistic stamina mod and other realism effects. Of course the game has to be enjoyable but I think immersion plays a big part too.

I expect my character's skills to improve as I play the game . . . but in many RPGs level up happens far too quickly, and my character's skills grow way too fast. These games rush the progress, making my character improve unrealistically. Improving your skills in real life takes time. You don't go from a rookie to the star of a team overnight.

Combat against a very powerful enemy, with a very powerful player character just ends up being an unrealistically long drawn out battle. I want to be able to hurt my enemy, no mater how powerful they are . . . but I also expect to be hurt by lessor enemies. Take either one away, and I begin to have problems with immersion, because the game loses credibility for me.

what about people who find realism fun?