This is my view.

I have never been a spell absorption fan, so I never stumbled across this. But it just proves that they didn't mean it to make you overpowered, it was just something that was stumbled across. I really didn't find the advantages/disadvantages system that overpowering, it was definitely nice but it never really felt like it pushed me anywhere near the realm of godhood.

Screw this god nonsense I just want to stab someone and have them die then get stabbed and die. Bethesda can throw levels out the window and none of this would be a problem. But everyone here just wants to become overpowered and break the game the whine how it's too easy. Give me a realistic mode/mod where a knife is a knife no matter who swings it and when I manage to kill an enemy as large and strong as a daedroth it will feel more rewarding than any current system we have.

Making it a pure action game will just trade one problem for another.

It wasn't a particularly sophisticated exploit really. I mean they must have seen that one coming. With a high enough destruction and ofcourse the 3X INT magica you could be clearing whole rooms with one spell, without losing any mana. It didn't matter what disadvantages you took at that point. Your main concern at that point was the case where an enemy spellcaster would throw a spell at you between the press of the recast button (at witch point the mana was reduced) and the actual casting of the spell (you had to press one more button to cast the spell). In such a case you would absorb the enemy's spell but then you wouldn't have enough empty mana in your pool to absorb all your spell, which, if your spell was potent enough, probably meant instant death from your own magic. Quite fitting really :biggrin:

It would be sweet if it started out like that. But after you started to leveled up you'd be more than just human... you'd be godlike.

... I reiterate, thank god your not the game director at BGS. I mean, being godlike and uber is what some games are made for but none of them break like a 7.0 because they just get monotonous and boring after a few hours because there is no challenge.

My god you're a feisty one.
Think more before you lash out at me or I will be forced to debate you.

God mode is not for TES.

Pretty sure that's what we did all last night and today <_< Also I believe you were the one that was being the "feisty" one with all the things you were saying yesterday, pretty evil.

My only problem with level scaling like Oblivion's is not that I can't become a god-like character because I just want to be a stronger than average man with very few other men that can hang with me. I still like challenge at high levels but I like to be rewarded by gaining levels. Why even have a level system if every enemy is nearly equal to you at all times?

From what I heard of Skyrim's level scaling it should be fairly realistic. If it's how I speculate it is, then there'll only be one main thing I won't be thrilled about. And that is once you enter an area that area becomes scaled to whatever level you are now and stays that way permanently. It's good that the area doesn't scale up with you but I don't necessarily like that the area scaled to me and that I have a fighting chance against all the enemies in that area, instead of there possibly being a group of enemies way higher than me and that I would have to come back later. But how would that work in the outside areas though? When you enter a new hold does that entire hold become leveled towards you or are there even smaller sections that get leveled instead?

Pete said that some areas will be tough and you'll have to come back when you're tougher, but what classifies as tougher(5 lvls or 20 lvls?) and how many of these areas are there?

I never had a problem with Fallout's leveling so if Skyrim's is like that or better yet improved I won't be whining about it much and I definitely won't whine until I at least play the game because everything up until the release is speculation.

About the pauldrons ? I stand that ground !!

EDIT:
also debates are the spice of life.

Didn't think I was going to post in this but I will now.

First, my take on level scaling, which is kind of what Morrowind did. There should be enemy classes, such as wildlife, mythic, daedra, human, mage, etc. Each one of these classes have levels within them that when we reach that level, they become added to the mix of random generation with an EQUAL chance. For instance, at level one, wildlife just has dear and wolves unlocked, with a 50% chance an enemy will be generated as either one of those two. And then at level 5, mountain lions. This drops the probability to 33%. Once this system is in place, regions can modify the probabilities. For instance, a mountain region increases the mountain lion chance by 10%. So, if you are not at a high enough level to unlock mountain lions, you won't see them even in this region. But come back later and there may be an over abundance of them. That goes for all the classes.

As for the whole god debate...I want to point out something that has already been noted. In TES Lore, normal mortals have achieved legendary status. Read the book about the battle between KW and a battlemage (forget the name, haven't touched Oblivion in years). It has KW summoning hundreds of undead and the two mages unleashing storms of magic as the book describes. Tiber Septim was a mortal who became a God. Nerevarine has been said to be a demi-god. In-game does not match up to lore currently and there is plenty of room to close the gap.

Now about realism...no matter how much dedication someone puts into something in the real world someone will not become a god? I disagree only by using God as a relative term to the normal person. For example, guitarists. Steve Vai, Antoine Dufour, John Petrucci, and others are God's relative to human.Yes they aren't a divine being. But compared to others in the world, they are the best. They can out play near everyone. They are Masters of the guitar skill. Another example is in mathematics and engineering. Nikola Tesla dedicated himself to his practice and became a "god" compared to normal humans. He was capable of things we still cannot replicate to this day. Hitler was a master of Speechcraft, able to manipulate an entire nation to follow him freely. No normal human could do these things unless they put in the effort to become great.

So in Oblivion, when I became a Master of Blade, I very well should be able to take on the average guard with ease. Even multiple ones. I have worked for it. Their level should stop at 7 or so but in their class "elite guards" can be unlocked to keep up difficulty. Now, against these elites, I should be able to take on a few at once with ease but after that it should become a challenge. Now, when we come across Dremora, again, I should be able to take on many average ones with ease because, relative to the world, I am the best. I am god-like. But higher ranking Dremora should provide more of a challenge, to a point.

Mastering Destruction shows that my character has put in the work and dedication to understanding that side of magic. If the lore has MANY instances of god-like uses of magic by normal mages, why can't my character if he too has worked hard for it? Personally, in every game, I feel like my character is a puss because i read stories of these great uses of magic, yet I can never do it. There should come a time that I can even approach upper-classed Dremore and not fret. If I have leveled up enough to have the magicka reserves to fly and launch overly-powerful spells (without using glitches) then why can't I? It's part of the magic system, not the realm of a god. Lore shows it's possible. And my Master of Destruction should be quite capable of frying many enemies at once because, relative to them, he is like a "god."

Very keen. I agree.
Also i suppose enlightened zen masters are the true gods among men.

I'm not sure why you talked about level-scaling because I wasn't talking about level-scaling as the topic....



A battle mage fighting someone else and being able to win isn't godlike, he was just powerful. Now if he started flying all over the place and instantly killing all life within a 500 ft radius and warping the very fabric of reality with his insanity, then yes, he would be a god. Tiber Septim became a god for a reason, not because he was going around training up his skills as he went about through his adventures, there were extenuating circumstances why he became a divine. The Nerevarine was just the reincarnation of Nerevar, who was a powerful dunmer but he wasn't a god or demi-god. In-game matches with the lore perfectly up to now and still has plenty of things to add.



They are as you said, greater than normal people are at what they do, that doesn't make them a god. You have a really low view of godhood. I have said you can be powerful when you have spent hours on a character where you the strongest person in the world, but being the strongest person in the world doesn't mean that you can do ridiculous things like flying around dropping nukes on the continent. Trust me, Steve Vai, Antoine Dufour and Petrucci are not gods lol. It's sort've silly to think that people in the real world are anywhere near gods. Nikola Tesla "created" the 20th century but he wasn't a god either.



Well by this point you have lost any credibility of pointing out godhood because you think that guitarists and physicists are godlike even though that isn't what godlike is. There aren't any instances of godlike mages in the lore except for let's see....gods? Vivec can keep the Ministry of Truth flying in the air, because he is a god empowered by the heart of Lorkhan. The mages that have done things like raise hundreds of undead or destroyed villages are powerful but they didn't destroy villages with one spell. They did it in a reasonable way, they walk into a village, use a powerful fire spell to set buildings on fire one building at a time and killing villagers that try to flee one by one with spells. That's powerful but not godlike, there is a huge difference, doing that is within the laws of reality in TES, but flying anywhere and everywhere you want is not in the lore as being done by anyone, that is a godlike thing and isn't realistic. Lore does not show that that is possible, sorry, it doesn't. I mean the flying potion that allowed them to fly up to Umriel in the infernal city was an amazing thing that was so awe-inspiring in the TES mythos, so why would it be if everyone can just fly around like they have jetpacks? It's not realistic in the TES mythos and it isn't balanced in a game so it should be in neither.



No, not about the pauldrons, it was about the way you were demeaning other people and accusing the TES series of pandering to casuals.

I had no problem with Oblivions level scaling I think it's been the best so far, the best way to control how hard it was or wasn't was by using the settings for difficulty. Which doesn't work as well in the Fallout games.

bigcrazewolf

Of course TES games are meant to show progression.

Lore supports many instances where people through magic, skill or supernatural aid have performed superhuman feats.
And we play legendary heroes, so doing stuff no one else has the power to is bread and butter to us.

Some people like to pretend lore doesnt support flying mages and such, but they are incorrect. And really shouldnt ignore those parts of the lore that do not match their personal agenda of dumbing TES down, or event outright declare any lore that does as not canonical.

To state that all of the ways to perform amazing feats is an unintended consequence is also clearly bunk. It is most obviously and undeniably wrong. A book in Morrowind describes fortifying intelligence to boost alchemy skill.
And there are another few instances like that.

Also, to achieve all nifty tricks you need intelligence, knowledge of the game and you need to apply skill.
For the longest time on Morrowind I thought the boots of blinding speed were useless. Until I thought about casting a resist magic before equiping.
I had a blast with them after that. They did not break the game. They greatly enhanched my enjoyment.

That people can find tricks online is irrelevant. Any game becomes boring with a full walkthrough available while you play it, and there is no helping the people that feel they need to play like that.

Elder scrolls games are games where the player has a lot of control over the gameworld and the character he creates.
Ending up a very powerful character is a consequence of that, and can be a lot of fun.
People should really stop advocating to dumb it down and turn it into another generic hack n slash, because its seriously starting to annoy me.

edit: and people should really really stop repeating the same tired old bunk that has been adressed a long time ago, but they pretend it hasnt. Such as 'everyone flying everywhere'
No-one ever said that. It has been clearly stated that the player isnt everyone, he is a legendary hero.
To keep repeating the same old bunk long after its been adequatly adressed is mindnumbingly irritating.

it bugs me when i can become the leader of all the guilds in one game. i dont think that my character who literally started at level one can in a few ingame months become a more poweful sorcerer than the archmage who arguable would not only be one of the more talented magicians but also has been practicing his craft for decades.........as opposed to couple of months.

dont think that someone who started off unable to sneak up succesfully on a pumpkin all of a sudden is the best assassin ever.

i always want a couple of old cranky wizards around who could school my ass if we got into a spell fight. or there should be a lich like in morrowind that can cast spells that are super powerful and you cant cast yourself. i hated that spell...that killed me more than any other thing in morrowind.

i want some big huge orc with a warhammer that could smash me up to my torso in the ground if i pissed him off.

there should be a thief who runs up to you and says "i have to borrow this for a bit, ill bring it back safe and sound" and you go and check you inventory and sure enough he took one of your weapons or some of your money.

it is stupid that you become the best at anything in such a very short time. if they had some storyline where you went to a temple and then a loading screen would pop up and tell you that you had trained constantly for 6 months and then when you game came back the game calendar showed 6 months went by then it would be more believable. the way they do it now is just silly.

i dont mind getting a boost from some demigod or a special spell from a lich that i befriend but in reality if you starting off as a noob then you should be a noob. now if they want to start my character off as some ex mercenary who has had years of combat training then it would make it more logical. but you always start off as some prisoner with no skills whatsoever.

Guys this whole thread is so ridiculous, level scaling shouldn't be taken away because you can't slaughter normal men, lower your difficulty, do you not see my point? You have a solution the thread should be over and done with. At a higher level I become a god with scaling because I'm in a full set of enchanted gear that I worked hard for but the game should level scale, it would be no fun to go into a dungeon and pillage everyone, sure maybe for about 10 minutes but after that I'd have to delete that character and make a new one, lower your difficulty.

Arma 2 -simulation
Red orchestra 2 -pretty real
CS 1.6 -trying to be real
BFBC2 - not real
Cod - totally void of reality

Which lvl of real are we talking about here?

Let the thread die please! lol I'm geeking out over here, I do not want my suspension of disbelief to dissapear I love feeling that my character could be real if the game world existed, I enjoy the slight realism we have lets keep it if not get more of it but don't rid of it!

buddy..your wrong. the imperial legion couldnt shut the gates of oblivion because you need the Amulet of Kings to Light the Dragon Fires. the Barrier between Oblivion and Tamriel. Thats how the portals open.Sure you could just send waive after waive of men to shut the portals but they would just keep showing up.plus its better to send in a small group or one man to go in quiet then send an army and atract all the enemy at once

I don't play rpgs for challenge...at least not after reaching level 30. I like when dlc or an expansion adds good reason for tougher enemies

I think demi-god level should be achievable - but definitely not easily so. The harder the challenge, the sweeter the reward will seem

Buddy, "your" wrong. You had to close gates outside of the cities, and you didn't need the amulet to do it. Another one could've opened after our hero closed one. So, why not have three or four guards do it? The realism camp seem to agree that a handful of guards should be able to take out the hero, so why couldn't they handle it, right? It's sort of a silly point, though.
I hope they've come up with something better than the Oblivion system. I like stumbling across a place that I have no business being. It's satisfying to return after leveling and exact revenge. Have areas designated for certain level ranges, with a small chance of encountering something out of place. I'm certain I'll love whatever they come up with, though.