Action adventure is a role one can adopt, a game that allows you to be an action adventurer but also frees you not to be is a roleplay game... Meh, I know purely semantics, but it was bugging.

Wow, that was a quick turn around. Thanks for the welcome guys ^_^

The results so far are about what I expected. I'm probably in category 1, mostly because that is what I expect of these games. If I want pure-action etc, I'll play Diablo or some-such.

Although, that said, I'll add a caveat. I like games which are immersive, but not tedious. So for effects like fatigue and hunger, I would envisage them as bars which very slowly deplete, but only start giving disadvantages after a certain period (16/8 hours etc OR 32/16 minutes in game time), but not before. It's not too hard to carry around a pumpkin or raid a nearby orchard.

For day/night, I'd like it if when there was moon you could see, but without it you pretty much couldn't (I've been out with no moon in the middle of nowhere and it's pretty pitch, even with all the stars) just to vary it up. This would be especially cool for quests tied to the lunar cycle.

I like the idea of having a hardcoe mode, or more specifically a customisable hardcoe mode. Normally hardcoe means enemies have 1000 HP and you have 1 which I usually find less fun. Being able to switch on and off various effects would probably be an easily implemented and fun system.

You get my point.

Edit double post

I like the idea of a modulArized hard core system it allows people to adjust the game experience to their own prefrences however TES is not and has never been an action series so and role playing elements take precedence Always, while oblivion seemed to take a step towards more action elements i would argue that TES has always been a hardcoe rpg series

Leave it to modders.....

I'm getting tired of this saying.

I would like the 'hardcoe' aspects- and make them toggable for certain aspects like said before.

I'm play games to get away from real life, I don't want a simulation. Theres a fine line that you shouldn't cross, because, real life is boring.

TES could certainly skimp on a few things and still be decent rpg. They could even split hardcoe and core gameplay.
I would rather have gameplay mechanics mirror a world and not a fable.



one track mind, eh?

im all for a hardcoe mode -> seems like a fair few people want eating/drinking/sleeping, and a fair few don't, so a hardcoe mode like in new vegas would settle it. And 'leaving it to the modders' cant be seen as a solution, as a lot of people play on consoles

One example where "hard core mode" isn't a good enough approach, fast travel.
* DF had fast travel with a cost, and much needed because of its humongous size.
* MW replaced it with many forms of travel services, probably because the world was smaller.
* OB is also very small, but now we get it as a freebie that can also be exploited.

Disable fast travel using "hard core mode"? That's not what we want. We want ability to travel, but with a system that makes sense.

Another thing is "food and sleep". I don't think "simply adding it" is enough to warrant it. It has to be deeply connected to a new concept in the game that deals with survivalism and dealing with nature, and this has to be handled during the design of the game in order to make it balanced and non intrusive. Toggling hard core mode to turn on or off a major feature concept of the game? I don't think so. It would be like toggling hard core to remove all magic from the game. It just doesn't hold water.

Like everything else, it's connected to the character type you choose to play. Do I play a survival dude? Then I have benefits wrt handling nature and surviving, but get penalties with magic. Do I play a mage? Then I have benefits with magic, but get penalties with handling nature and surviving. Although a mage may get some tricks up his sleeve, he shouldn't get all.

Since I am an avid supporter of strategic voting, I had to choose "bits and pieces" on this one. Anyone who wants people to be forced to sleep/eat/drink needs to play FO:NV. They have a hardcoe mode for that. It wasn't hard for the developers to make the option (from what I can infer) and it made tons of people happy because those who wanted realism had it, and the sane ones among us had the regular game.

Eating/Drinking/Sleeping to survive: hardcoe mode only for reasons that should be evident.
Dark nights: Both versions. This was an issue with Oblivion. Night isn't supposed to be day with an almost transparent gel over it. (Sorry, used to television studio words. Barely tinted window is a good way to think about it)
Fatigue: If you want to fall over and die when it hits 0, hardcoe only. For a fixed fatigue system, both.
Freezing water: This is skyrim. Both.
Fast travel: This is the biggest debate (dark nights are second, fatigue just needs bethesda tweaking). In my opinion, we need quick travel between cities, and paid scouts to lead us into the wilderness. Low levels need to experience the wilderness more than a once-pass on a horse to get all the locations marked. The wilderness is supposed to be part of the game, and fast travel destroyed it. It pushed everything underground and into buildings. Travel by horse and you realize how small the world really is. Overlapping icons is bad when the icons are small. It's a wonder those minotaurs haven't fought the fort full of vampires.

@Hoblak: I recommend that you play FO:NV to understand what the hardcoe system would be like. By picking hardcoe mode, you only add those extra realism factors. You do not make existing skills harder (except where your needs mean you need to eat/sleep etc) or detriment the game in any way.

id love to see darker nights and beautiful stars

I guess I fall more into the second option "bits and pieces" I certainly don't care for being forced to eat and drink. I only played "hardcoe" mode once in New Vegas out of curiosity and the achievement. But after that I haven't touched it. For me it didn't really "add" anything to my experience. So, as long is it stays a option I'm fine with it.

As for fast travel I only used it in Oblivion because I felt like I had no reason to really explore. It's not like I was going to stumble across a cave with some awesome loot unless I was level 20+ and by then I have a full set of daedric that I've enchanted (for instance) so who cares. Honestly, I never used Fast Travel once in Red Dead Redemption because the game world was just so beautiful + they had good draw distance. I,e I never saw muddy textures 30 ft in front of me. But of course Oblivion was a launch-ish title and with Skyrim running on a new engine my hopes are high. So even if they don't give us more "RP-esque" ways of fast travel just give me a horse and carriage to drive and I'm happy.

The one thing I would like to see be more "hardcoe" I guess, would be combat. I want it to be fast and deadly for both sides. Or at least figure out a way where I don't avoid fights simply because they become tedious. (see spriggans from Morrowind and goblins from both Morrowind and Oblivion)

But no matter what the do I know I'll love it and keep coming back. I still playing Morrowind and Oblivion regularly :celebration:

I'll put it this way, I don't want a fantasy survival simulator, nor do I want a casual point and click adventure. Morrowind and Oblivion were both fine, add travel options beyond fast travel (make fast travel optional) and some darker (but not pitch black) nights and I'll be fine with sticking to the style of those two.

In between hardcoe and bits and pieces.

About Morrowind/Daggerfall level.

That's kind of where I am. I want a smart, well made fast travel system that I will only rarely want to use because the land is so beautiful/explorable and the horse travel system is greatness. RDR did a good job with that.

Personally I wouldn't want it to go super hardcoe with "freezing water" and whatever else silly things people come up with.

Part of the fun that was taken out of New Vegas was the hardcoe mode. I had more fun doing the eating, sleeping, and drinking thing in Oblivion without the little bar telling me, "Congratulations you have drank enough water to last you another day so now the bar is back at zero".

When it was required it wasn't fun but when it was just something I was fooling around with on my own it was fun.

Sometimes it's just better to leave things out and let people use their own imaginations and make up their own rules instead of having hardcoe mode telling you when to eat and [censored].

...

But that's just it. Its a mode. If you still wanted to pretend to eat, you could just play normal New Vegas and still do it that way. It was literally 100% optional, with no side effects (as compared to arguments like Fast Travel). If you didn't like how it effected your play, you could turn it off at any moment.

Im all for realism, but I think some things can be a little over the top. In the end of it all, its a game, and Im going to play it to have fun. Not watch the grass grow.

:foodndrink: That's what I'm talkin about

It is and I realize that

But at the same time I'm sure there was some time and resources that went into the hardcoe mode that perhaps could have been focused on something more vital to the game.

All I'm saying is really you don't need a developer to code in a hardcoe mode. If you want a hardcoe mode make up rules to do it. If you look at a lot of past TESIV threads you can find topics about how people came up with their own rules that were just as hardcoe (and without mods providing a meter!) if not more so than the mode that will likely be provided by the developers.

To me it was more fun coming up with those rules and how to play it than having the developer made mode.

It never mattered to me anyways. Some of the first mods for TES games are realism mods, so I really don't care one way or the other. I can see your point about developer resources, but I do suppose if they do make a hardcoe mode, that they do put their best into it.

Funny thing is... While I don't like the current FPP simulation of the recent Fallouts, nor in RPG's in general... That's what TES is, and I don't mind it in TES; I don't mind that the PC's name is meaningless, and that the PC starts the game with no significant history or motivation :shrug:. The series [as far as I've been able to tell] is about grind and graphics (not counting the books in Morrowind). I like it for what it is, and don't judge it against Planesc... well... most Black Isle games in general. the TES games that I have, have always [seemingly] sought to substitute the player for the PC in a reactive open world that lets them explore it as though they were born there, and live the virtual life of a native in that world. Few games manage this well; TES does.

I would not want it realistic to the point of peeing on the plants*, but minor tweaks on Oblivion and aspects gained from their Fallout 3/NV titles could really make a worthy series game. Aspects, not so much the Gore, as rather a fantasy equivalent of the reloading bench that lets you craft scrolls, potions and artifacts. Or they could incorporate the somatic spellcasting tech from Arkane's Arx Fatalis into the engine, and let the players actually learn the spell gestures to cast spells in the game ~which worked very, very well in Arx, and would bump the casting effect realism up quite a notch IMO.

*On second thought [having played Postal 2], I'm not so sure I wouldn't want that level of realism after all... If the reactions of the guards and merchants were well done.

** I should note that for me, Fast Travel (the mistakenly believed instant travel) has no 'immersion' counter effects for me what-so-ever. I just wish they would refine and expand its scope to include potential ambush at points between A & B, and implement hard stops for situations like impassable terrain (like a troll bridge say), and/ or Buffs wearing off and the PC can't carry his inventory.

I'm in favor of conventional travel, and magical teleportation as well. They should reduce the odds of ambush, and in the case of a caravan, provide temporary allies for the PC in the way of caravan guards hired to protect the paid passengers.

Both the first and last. If it's the first, I'll eventually mod it in - but I don't /dislike/ non-superrealistic gameplay. What I won't take is inconsistency, however - either go the whole way, or don't go at all.

I do want most realism parts added in by Oblivion and maybe even a few new ones, but I do not want to see fully voiced dialogue again. Having it in Oblivion meant Bethesda had to limit Dialogue, it's variety, which characters could have what, character personality, quests, ect.

-DL :chaos: