[WIPz] Realistic Combat

Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:07 am

This is what has resulted over my past few years of trying to get Morrowind's combat a complete overhaul. This, among many other proof of concept mods of mine, are too unstable to be considered release-worthy. However, I provide this as a test version to the public as I've found the results of playing this mod on my own games has been more than satisfactory, despite how unbalancing it probably is.

So what is it?
This is my own take on a Morrowind combat mod that simulates the ability to block with your weapon, the usage of momentum during a leap or while running (charge), and many other things.

So what are the features and how do you use them?
The features are as follows:

-100% hit chance. You will always hit whatever you're facing and within range to hit, and so will the enemy. The angled field of attack has been sharply reduced to ensure that the player must aim their strikes well. This also means that you and your enemy can both dodge attacks if timed right.

-Running/jumping (for both player and NPC) will add an increase in attack damage to simulate inertia.

-Higher stakes combat. Attacks are much more devastating now with increased chance of critical. Attacking twice in succession will result in massive damage - however, it will be difficult to do this while trying to block unless you take the offensive immediately and keep it.

-Block with your weapon. To do this, you must enter defense mode, in which the player defaults to blocking and the damage of counterattacks is minimal. When blocking, you will usually take no damage from enemy attack, and an accompanying "clang" will result instead. However, this does not mean you can get away with blocking through an entire session of combat! A fixed portion of your fatigue will drain with each successful block, and if the enemy's combat stats are much higher than yours, there is a chance you can mess up your defense and take a lot of damage anyway (an accompanying scraping sound coupled with the loss of your health will be the indication). Standing there defending will just result in you getting beat down.

-Archery overhaul. Pulling back the bowstring and holding will slowly drain fatigue. A different sound will accompany the shot, depending on how rapidly the bow is shot. Arrows will always hit whatever they come across.

-Many new sounds to improve the atmosphere of combat. Randomized sounds occur during a strike against armor, a weapon swish, blocking an attack and failing a block. Bows now play different sounds and weapon draw sounds will change when in sneak mode. Sounds also change depending on what weapon you have equipped.

What is this compatible with?
It shouldn't be incompatible with anything but MWE blocking. Both mods have a different way of dealing with block that conflicts because of the block skill.

Will it unbalance my game?
Probably. It's an alpha right now and I've tried to ratio the NPC's level and skills with the outcome battle and so far results seem fairly realistic - a commoner will present a challenge but isn't necessarily any better than you are. An Imperial guard will take a high level or fair amount of strategy to take down.

Up to four NPCs can be affected at a time. For the official release there will be many more scripts and thus many more NPCs affected. This will not require any external programs to run.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2A8IACDC There it is - expect bugs. Lots of bugs.
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Rhiannon Jones
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:53 am


-100% hit chance. You will always hit whatever you're facing and within range to hit, and so will the enemy. The angled field of attack has been sharply reduced to ensure that the player must aim their strikes well. This also means that you and your enemy can both dodge attacks if timed right.

I dislike this function :ahhh:
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Kristian Perez
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:56 am

Sounds epic. The 100% chance to hit is what really caught my eye :thumbsup: . Are you going to put in some other buffs for raising weapon skills then to keep the usefulness of training up.
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Evaa
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:32 am

It wont appeal to everyone. People who prefer original MW combat style wont like this. Weapon skill and other stats all go into calculations so it's still worth training.
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Chelsea Head
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:04 pm

It wont appeal to everyone. People who prefer original MW combat style wont like this. Weapon skill and other stats all go into calculations so it's still worth training.

I like most of the functions up their i urge you to make that part optional ( make a seperate download ) as its been discussed and most people on the thread didnt like that concept.
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Rhi Edwards
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:30 am

Sounds awesome. Combat is the single thing in Morrowind that is lacking IMO. Will NPC behavior also be altered, i.e. will they run/jump/dodge?
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Juan Cerda
 
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Post » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:07 pm

How are you going to achieve the 100% hit chance? The last mod that tried this reduced the agility of all NPCs and the player to 0, which wasn't exactly a good solution.
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BlackaneseB
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:57 am

Sounds awesome. Combat is the single thing in Morrowind that is lacking IMO. Will NPC behavior also be altered, i.e. will they run/jump/dodge?


No, if that's going to happen it'll happen later. NPC Enhanced will do this for you.

How are you going to achieve the 100% hit chance? The last mod that tried this reduced the agility of all NPCs and the player to 0, which wasn't exactly a good solution.


Fortify attack for both parties.
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Devils Cheek
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:56 am

You can just add fortify attack abilities to everything.
I dled a mod which does this, I think it's called Lucky Strike.

edit: ninja'd
Btw, sounds like a cool idea.
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Britney Lopez
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:24 am

This sounds like it has the potential to become an excellent mod. It's awesome that you already have an alpha build completed; it seems like so many mods dealing with combat in Morrowind never seem to come to fruition.

With that said, the only thing I have to wonder is how much influence Agility has on combat with your mod. In vanilla Morrowind, Agility is the main factor in determining your accuracy and evasion. With those taken out of the equation, the only thing Agility would be useful for (at least in combat) is blocking.
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Kelvin Diaz
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:39 am

-100% hit chance. You will always hit whatever you're facing and within range to hit, and so will the enemy.

Ambitious, but in light of this, your proposed mod will be cinematic/console-chop-em-up combat, not realistic.

Those unskilled with a weapon hit rarely, no matter how carefully they aim. It's a sad fact that your foe dodges and weaves, even if the Morrowind engine doesn't depict this.
Further, a person armed with a dagger must work hard to land a blow on someone with a spear determined to keep them at distance, but the spearman can make an offensive thrust from a defensive stance in no noticeable time.

If your goal is realistic combat, I suggest some research into weapons and the tactics of there use.
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Britta Gronkowski
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:41 am

Ambitious, but in light of this, your proposed mod will be cinematic/console-chop-em-up combat, not realistic.

Those unskilled with a weapon hit rarely, no matter how carefully they aim. It's a sad fact that your foe dodges and weaves, even if the Morrowind engine doesn't depict this.
Further, a person armed with a dagger must work hard to land a blow on someone with a spear determined to keep them at distance, but the spearman can make an offensive thrust from a defensive stance in no noticeable time.

If your goal is realistic combat, I suggest some research into weapons and the tactics of there use.

I disagree, this would be more realistic, however i agree i dont like this idea.
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Tyler F
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:07 pm

I would never use a mod that made hit rate %100, but I think it would be great to have it available and many people would love it.

If your goal is realistic combat, I suggest some research into weapons and the tactics of there use.

Not picking on you, Symon69, your point about keeping weapon usage honest is valid.
But to me, Oblivion-style combat felt "realer" ...but it was boring and too easy.
And I'm not worrying about "Realism" when I'm attacking an Ogrim with a flaming sword made from enchanted glass. I just play to have Fun.
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victoria johnstone
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:17 am

Ambitious, but in light of this, your proposed mod will be cinematic/console-chop-em-up combat, not realistic.

Those unskilled with a weapon hit rarely, no matter how carefully they aim. It's a sad fact that your foe dodges and weaves, even if the Morrowind engine doesn't depict this.

This isn't necessarily true. It's surprisingly easy to hit someone with something, even if they're trying to get away from it without actually running away (which might actually happen more with this mod, few people/creatures actually have the reserve to fight to the death unless there's no other option). If that person has the means to block and hit back then it can be an entirely different story. Typically you wouldn't even have to aim to hit someone, you just swing.
I typically find a very easy window to dodge an opponent's attack (or block if you think you can do it), and with the smaller "hit" radius in this mod, you'll find the NPC's side-stepping your swings quite often.

Further, a person armed with a dagger must work hard to land a blow on someone with a spear determined to keep them at distance, but the spearman can make an offensive thrust from a defensive stance in no noticeable time.

This only more accurately portrays what would probably happen in real life unless an extreme lack or excess of skill executed by one of the combatants. You can still get in there with a block-cut, block-cut rhythm if your character has the stats to maintain that kind of fighting without screwing up.

If your goal is realistic combat, I suggest some research into weapons and the tactics of there use.

As a practitioner of kenjutsu, I'll admit to the sword being the only weapon I'm familiar with as far as actual studio training and knowledge goes, but I've have a hard time implementing many of the strategies into Morrowind. A similar project by Duke Patrick was done for Oblivion, and still only stresses combat techniques to the extent of the game engine. Morrowind can do a lot less than Oblivion can do in terms of scripting, but my original idea for this mod is pretty much the same as Duke Patrick's.

Essentially the point of this mod is to take combat expertise from your character and share a little with you (the player). Now you will have much more control over combat while yours and your enemy's stats still count.
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Claire Lynham
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:10 am

This isn't necessarily true. It's surprisingly easy to hit someone with something, even if they're trying to get away from it without actually running away

We'll have to differ. I've always found the unskilled combatants can easily be dodged. Last time it happened to me, I stepped back half a pace, grabbed their arm, pulled them to their knees and landed a 'cut' across the kidneys. I never thought myself very good at re-enactment combat mind (NOT LARP, the group had been known to lose fingers.)
The most fearsome newbies were those armed with spears and shields. The reach made up for lot's of missing skill and a shield is great protection.
As a practitioner of kenjutsu, I'll admit to the sword being the only weapon I'm familiar with as far as actual studio training and knowledge goes, but I've have a hard time implementing many of the strategies into Morrowind.

Kendo or kenjutsu? I'm told that some 'kenjutsu' is really just kendo. Either way, you have my admiration.
Essentially the point of this mod is to take combat expertise from your character and share a little with you (the player). Now you will have much more control over combat while yours and your enemy's stats still count.

The point I'm trying to make is it's an RPG. Player skill with the mouse has nothing to do with it and if it does, you get a console game not an RPG.

Anyway, it's ambitious so good luck, just anathema to me. Besides, at my age such reflexes are long gone.
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Lillian Cawfield
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:23 am

No offense, but to those that find the concept of this mod anathema - why even comment upon it? There are lots of mods I'm not interested in for different reasons, for example if they break lore completely, but then I just stay away from them. Plus I find it a stretch to put it mildly to make the case that the vanilla combat system is realistic. I get the point that it is RPG-ish in that it is the character's skills that count rather than the players, but that's a different point.

Anyway, really looking forward to trying this out.
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Dona BlackHeart
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:17 am

We'll have to differ. I've always found the unskilled combatants can easily be dodged. Last time it happened to me, I stepped back half a pace, grabbed their arm, pulled them to their knees and landed a 'cut' across the kidneys. I never thought myself very good at re-enactment combat mind (NOT LARP, the group had been known to lose fingers.)
The most fearsome newbies were those armed with spears and shields. The reach made up for lot's of missing skill and a shield is great protection.

Keep in mind that moving aside an attack is much more difficult to do (repeatedly) and that enemies in Morrowind don't dodge backwards like the player continuously can (until I find some way to make this happen?). Spears and shields pose much more of a threat or nuisance with this mod, so similarly a newbie NPC can be surprisingly threatening sometimes.

Kendo or kenjutsu? I'm told that some 'kenjutsu' is really just kendo. Either way, you have my admiration.

Kendo is like a modern variation of kenjutsu, which is the art of Japanese fencing. Kenjutsu is a lot more traditional while kendo is more sport-like, and kenjutsu teaches to kill (well, that used to be it's purpose) while kendo students train for points and tournaments. In kenjutsu there are no rules but there is a lot of form and drilling exercises, in kendo there are certain rules and they train to perform within the boundries of those rules in the ring. There is still a lot of sparring in kenjutsu and it's a really good workout, and I enjoy the traditional atmosphere.

The point I'm trying to make is it's an RPG. Player skill with the mouse has nothing to do with it and if it does, you get a console game not an RPG.

Anyway, it's ambitious so good luck, just anathema to me. Besides, at my age such reflexes are long gone.

The reason I decided to release these ideas and experiments to the public is because I enjoy the challenge of fighting the fight in an RP(G), not watching my character monotonously swinging at the enemy. We all know that Morrowind's animations just simply cannot compensate for the click-click-click dice-roll melee of vanilla MW. I want to push the player into a different mindset during melee, so that strategy and not boring animations occupy the mind while still allowing all your hard earned stats to make a difference. I understand that some people will enjoy the original style of combat better, but I also know that a (perhaps larger) majority of players want to see a change in the outdated clickfest.

Well here it is. Expect it to be very buggy, but it should work.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2A8IACDC
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Adriana Lenzo
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:30 am

Sweet. I'll be giving this a shot later on today. I've gotta get through school first :( .
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liz barnes
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:19 am

Symon has all the rights to comment, and it's actually good to know different opinions before getting this myself.
But I agree with the author - some people like to play the game, not play according to it. I'll give this a try, maybe not the best time to invoke new overhauls again for me, but oh what the heck.
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OTTO
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:26 pm

Well I gave the mod a try and I have to say this is easily now in my top five favorite mods. Very, very impressive :goodjob: . I do have a couple of small question though. Does the 100% chance to hit affect animals' attacks as well? And how do I go about switching to defensive mode for blocking?

Edit: Thought of some others while playing. Does this affect werewolves or mod added NPCs/Creatures?
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Elizabeth Davis
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:06 am

How is the damage calculated now that you always hit and what do the skills do?
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Joanne
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:01 am

I tried the beta here is what I observed.

With a level 20 battlemage I really could not tell much difference other than the sounds.
With a fresh off the boat PC it felt mostly the same as playing the level 20 battlemage other than the hits were for much less damage.


Conclusion @ this stage of beta IMHO: Helps lower level PC's fight better ... but not much deference for high level players that I could see.

I'll be watching this ... But at this point I'm sticking with MWE's combat enhancements & Fliggerty's Combat Behavior mod.
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Paula Ramos
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:27 am

I don't know if your goal is actually to make combat in Morrowind as "realistic" as possible, as the mod's name seems to suggest, but I can think of few things less realistic than what you've done to the combatants' chances to hit each other. I don't intend to be insulting to you, but I honestly imagine anyone with experience in any kind of close-quarters combat would just laugh out loud at the absurdity of that idea. For myself, I tried the fencing club at a local university for a few weeks a couple of years ago; I don't think it would surprise anyone to learn that nobody in the club landed even close to 100% of their swings. ;^)

With that very unrealistic change to the game's combat, I wonder, what exactly do the weapon skills do now? I know you said they are still important and they are considered in the calculations, but what does that mean? What calculations? (damage? critical hits?) And how do they influence those calculations?
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neen
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:46 am

The realism factor is going to be limited due to Morrowind's engine. You can't duck, dodge, and move about in MW like you would be able to do in real-life. As far as that goes he has made it considerably more realistic already (atleast your massive claymore going straight through someone's head now always causes damage), even with the limitations in the way. But, just like every other mod, there is always room for improvement.
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RAww DInsaww
 
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Post » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:54 pm

Some ideas,

Sometimes a dagger would only cause a small wound which won't count to health ratio at all.(Replacement for missing at low levels. Too much small wounds can cause excessive bleeding and from there it will affect health indirectly.)
Sometimes a low level stabber(in real life or movies) couldn't grab on the dagger after stabbing. Dagger will be stuck in the victim(Like arrows behavior.) And not all stabbings are deadly. One should watch Dexter to learn. :)
Sometimes you miss, sometimes a miss can hurt the user(This may need a proper missing animation).
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BrEezy Baby
 
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