realistic gore : V

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:32 am

thread 2..

skyrim needs realistic gore- not over the top gore, not a lack of gore. realistic gore would actually make me think of the weapons as more real

some points i need to get across

1- NOT OVER THE TOP GORE!!! i dont want a l4d2/gears of war/fallout 3 level of gore!!!
2- it wouldent break the rpg mechanics of the game!! a level 30 charecter wouldent get giant gashes everywhere on his body from a level one guys smacking him because the gore system does that. injuries will be downplayed depending on how much damage it did percentage wise. 10 points of dammage on a mudcrab would make the damage very visible whilst any damage to an enemy with lots of health will be downplayed from gashes to scratches
3- there would be an option to turn it off
4: it would be realistic, but not insanely realistic (you arent going to avoid daikatanas because of realistic disembowlment or avoid explosive spells because of the mess you make)
5: it would be realistic enough to mean that you wouldn't dismember everything you hit with daggers and arrows (like fallout :facepalm: ) or give out giant gapping holes for every spell flung (like l4d2 were a single mg bullet makes zombies explode). severing limbs would still happen.

what i posted last thread...

i was impressed by the way npc's reacted to being wacked in the gameplay trailer- but then when i looked closely i noticed that wounds did NOTHING to the body!!! yes its nice that the undead thing's head bent backwards when the players axe went to his face- but the head bent back BEFORE IMPACT, and NO DAMAGE WAS VISIBLE!!!

this is a game were I am going to be up close and personal VERY often, and i will notice this very much up close. i will not be happy when i find out that my savage looking Axe doesn't actually go inside my opponent!!!!

what VALVe did to make l4d2's system would work very well with skyrim. in l4d a zombie can be shot,cut or blown up. if shot A model of the zombie's insides is created inside of the zombie and the part that was hit becomes transparent. if slashed then a gash model would apear. severing arms/legs and parts of the head was done pretty well too. http://www.valvesoft..._l4d2wounds.pdf l4d2 did this over the top (in terms or realism, i found it cool that gibs were everywhere), but i am sure skyrim can do it right. it NEEDS TO DO IT RIGHT!!!!.

i want creatures to receive wounds whilst living!!! i should be able to cut a zombie's face in half, cut his arm off, cut his chest open and smother him in fire AS I DO THAT!!!! i don't want opponents to have no gibs until the last blow!!!
i want creatures to have their own gib systems! i would like dremora to have black bones and ash or oil instead of blood, i would like trolls to get wounded rather than having unbleeding skin simply because bethesda were to lazy to make a separate gore thing for them!!!!
i want things to react differently to being dismembered. a person should scream in horror and become immobile with pain whilst an undead or daedra would laugh off their chest imploding under a mace. healers should tend to wounded
i want REALISM!!!! i dont want someones chest exploding when i put an arrow into it (unless i enchant it). i want clouds of blood to come off such a deep wound when underwater, i want the wound to apear EXACTLY HOW IT WOULD IN REAL LIFE!!!!

edit:

summer, on 27 March 2011 - 07:25 AM, said:
But still, how do you make combat seem realistic when at level 1 it takes 50 whacks with an ax to kill someone. Is that realistic? No, it isn't. You would go down with a couple of whacks with an ax. But that is what makes it an RPG. How would you ever make 50 whacks with an ax realistic?

by changing massive gashes too scratches...

Ragamuffin, on 27 March 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:
This thread is for realistic gore. Not cheesy amounts. Too little is just as cheesy as too much.

The FBI, on 27 March 2011 - 10:41 AM, said:
Just give an option to turn it off in Options. For those of us who like extreme gore, we will enjoy it turned on.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:30 am

L4D2 was not that over the top,decals in the form of scratches and scars sounds cool. I honestly reserve judgement until I play it myself.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:06 pm

thread 2..

skyrim needs realistic gore- not over the top gore, not a lack of gore. realistic gore would actually make me think of the weapons as more real

some points i need to get across

1- NOT OVER THE TOP GORE!!! i dont want a l4d2/gears of war/fallout 3 level of gore!!!
2- it wouldent break the rpg mechanics of the game!! a level 30 charecter wouldent get giant gashes everywhere on his body from a level one guys smacking him because the gore system does that. injuries will be downplayed depending on how much damage it did percentage wise. 10 points of dammage on a mudcrab would make the damage very visible whilst any damage to an enemy with lots of health will be downplayed from gashes to scratches
3- there would be an option to turn it off
4: it would be realistic, but not insanely realistic (you arent going to avoid daikatanas because of realistic disembowlment or avoid explosive spells because of the mess you make)
5: it would be realistic enough to mean that you wouldn't dismember everything you hit with daggers and arrows (like fallout :facepalm: ) or give out giant gapping holes for every spell flung (like l4d2 were a single mg bullet makes zombies explode). severing limbs would still happen.

I think the blood in the trailer looked realistic enough. Dragonborn had some blood on him but nothing more. I expect we will see decapitations though.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:38 pm

Fallout actually didn't have nearly as much gore as it should have.
All it had was limbs being ripped off and people being a (little) blown apart.

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:05 am

Real gore is crazy to look at, seriously. Fo3 gore is not realistic. If Skyrim has some form of this, it's ok, but not Fo3 style or realistic style.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:26 pm

I'm happy with the amount in the trailer, enough for visual impact, not too much to look gratuitous and immature.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:39 pm

Visible scars would be nice, but I don't want the whole game to be a bloodbath. We don't need soccer moms cracking down on TES like they do with GTA.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:43 pm

Visible scars would be nice, but I don't want the whole game to be a bloodbath. We don't need soccer moms cracking down on TES like they do with GTA.

gta has no gore...

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:18 am

if you want gore go to /b/

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:01 am

I'm happy with the amount in the trailer, enough for visual impact, not too much to look gratuitous and immature.

We agree, good sir. :cookie:

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:11 pm

Visible scars would be nice, but I don't want the whole game to be a bloodbath. We don't need soccer moms cracking down on TES like they do with GTA.

GTA still sells. If they're trying to appease soccer moms, this game will blow balls. :biggrin:

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:47 pm

thread 2..

skyrim needs realistic gore- not over the top gore, not a lack of gore. realistic gore would actually make me think of the weapons as more real

some points i need to get across

2- it wouldent break the rpg mechanics of the game!! a level 30 charecter wouldent get giant gashes everywhere on his body from a level one guys smacking him because the gore system does that

That right there makes it not "realistic". A whack with an axe is a whack with an axe. You don't need to be an expert swordsman to hit someone with a sword really hard and create a huge gash.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:29 pm

I'm happy with the amount in the trailer, enough for visual impact, not too much to look gratuitous and immature.

This.

Additionally, I think lots of gore would turn off more customers (people who don't want it, for various reasons) than it would attract customers (people who specifically seek out such things and wouldn't buy the game without it.)

Bethesda doesn't strike me as a company that seeks to "push the envelope" or deliberately court controversy (like, say, Rockstar).

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:34 pm

How would FO3 level of gore be too much? Arms and limbs being lost when you keep chopping away with a claymore makes much more sense than shooting it off with a dartgun.

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:01 am

How would FO3 level of gore be too much? Arms and limbs being lost when you keep chopping away with a claymore makes much more sense than shooting it off with a dartgun.

I believe the suggestion is that games & movies tend to over-emphasize how easy it is to dismember someone / how much blood flies / etc. (re: beheadings.... remember, in those cases the neck is braced against a hard surface, adding to the force you can apply. Freestanding dude dodging around in a fight, neck not braced against anything? Part of the blow's force will go to pushing his body around, flexing of the head & neck, etc. Same with limbs.)

And, yeah.... it was deliberately over-the-top in Fallout 3 - because the game series has always had a tongue-in-cheek cheesiness to it. Even back in the FO1&2 sprite-graphics days, bodies exploded, blood flew everywhere, and people were reduced to a couple boots with ankle bones sticking up out of them. It's amazingly far from "realistic". (And, honestly, it gets old in FO3 pretty fast. Even without taking the Bloody Mess perk.)

and further re: beheadings..... I vaguely recall reading somewhere that people going to the guillotine would bribe the guards to go sooner (skip ahead in line, as it were) - because the blade would get dull, and it wouldn't cut cleanly after a few goes. And, again, that's with a braced neck.

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:10 am

I believe the suggestion is that games & movies tend to over-emphasize how easy it is to dismember someone / how much blood flies / etc. (re: beheadings.... remember, in those cases the neck is braced against a hard surface, adding to the force you can apply. Freestanding dude dodging around in a fight, neck not braced against anything? Part of the blow's force will go to pushing his body around, flexing of the head & neck, etc. Same with limbs.)

And, yeah.... it was deliberately over-the-top in Fallout 3 - because the game series has always had a tongue-in-cheek cheesiness to it. Even back in the FO1&2 sprite-graphics days, bodies exploded, blood flew everywhere, and people were reduced to a couple boots with ankle bones sticking up out of them. It's amazingly far from "realistic". (And, honestly, it gets old in FO3 pretty fast. Even without taking the Bloody Mess perk.)

and further re: beheadings..... I vaguely recall reading somewhere that people going to the guillotine would bribe the guards to go sooner (skip ahead in line, as it were) - because the blade would get dull, and it wouldn't cut cleanly after a few goes. And, again, that's with a braced neck.

Certainly - it's not easy, even with a sharp blade there's bones and tendons and what not to muck up your best efforts to perform a clean beheading - but what i meant was that i should be possible, seeing as swords and axes are, after all, somewhat sharp. I'm very familiar with the physics part of the direction and absorption of force. What i did NOT mean is that it should be like the Bloody Mess perk in FO3/NV.

Edit: as for blades getting dull, please give us a stone with which we can sharpen the blades. Not a sodding hammer to fix all things made of metal.

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:59 am

Gore and even dismemberment can be perfectly fine but going to this level of "Need gore to show death" isn't something I would expect in a TES game. When fighting someone and dealing that last blow that reduces their health to 0 and they go down shouldn't be a immersion breaker because they don't reflect all the combat that just happened or they weren't dismembered. We have the finishing moves system they're implementing.

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:06 am

actually there were many beheadings done in the past where the person was kneeling upright, no brace. Specific heavy executioner's swords were reserved for this purpose, especially in Spain. But yeah, in the middle of a battle with a normal long sword would not be very easy.

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:51 am

As has been said, L4D's gore was actually quite realistic. If you look at real gore from a (real) warscene or whatnot, that's about what it looks like. And if you think about, an explosive fireball with lightning on the side cast by an experienced mage would probably do a bit more damage than a bullet.

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:51 am

With a sharp enough blade that is large enough with enough weight and leverage cutting off limbs and heads with ease is not really that inaccurate. I was watching a documentary on the Bataan Death March not too long ago( a much more serious subject than a video game) but regardless there were a number of reports from POW's of Japanese Soldiers taking swipes at them with samurai swords taking off limbs and on some occasions even heads without too much trouble. Now this was a horrible nasty reality so I don't want say anymore about it, but it is a modern example of how fragile the Human frame is.

Even in medieval times chain mail was for smaller slashing protection and taking on a full sized hard sword blow it mostly kept you at best from getting your arm chopped off, but it would still be broken and/or mangled.you could break someones neck or arm with a baseball bat, take a large sword or axe that is much heavier with a very sharp edge and it should have no trouble cutting through limbs.

Now of course this is a video game and a fantasy one so there are levels, hit points and armor so your not going to be lopping off heads and arms right and left but I think it should be able to happen. I picture Skyrim being a much more brutal and unforgiving place than Cyrodil or Morrowind even so it would add to immersion.

Now of course I know they will most likely not have much gore, but an on/off switch in the menu or even construction kit or programming it so someone with some good modding skills can change it. The Oblivion gore mods I found just had a little more blood shoot out, I like the idea of at least being able to mod a game with some realistic gore much more online with a more accurate depiction of wounds caused by blunt or cutting weapons.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:27 pm

I agree, nothing ridiculous like Fallout 3's 9mm pistol decapitations but I mean if you swing a 2-handed axe at a guy a limb is going to fall off.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:17 pm

I feel like gore only works well in more action-based games instead of RPG's.

Example: In Jedi outcast there was a cheat where you could dismember enemies with a lightsaber. It didn't bother me though because the troopers would just disappear and there would be a fresh batch of them in a few seconds.

I wouldn't want to see the bartender's arms or legs hacked off after having a conversation with him a few minutes earlier. Skyrim will be a virtual world that feels real, and while there should be some blood splatter to show some realism, there shouldn't be limbs lying all over the place. It doesn't need that to a good game.

Additionally, developers have already said that there would be gratuitous amounts of gore and that they are perfectly content with the level of gore present. I doubt they would say that if they thought there was substantial grounds for people to be offended.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:38 am

Visible scars would be nice, but I don't want the whole game to be a bloodbath. We don't need soccer moms cracking down on TES like they do with GTA.

maybe thats ur problem but there are many people who are older then 18 and when parent dont really care.. pity if you are 12-15 or something.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:52 pm

As has been said, L4D's gore was actually quite realistic. If you look at real gore from a (real) warscene or whatnot, that's about what it looks like. And if you think about, an explosive fireball with lightning on the side cast by an experienced mage would probably do a bit more damage than a bullet.

That may be so, but....

...you know, I don't really want to see people who've been hacked & burned to death. It's disgusting & disturbing. (And, yeah.... reality is disgusting & disturbing, too. That's why I'm glad I live in a place where such violence isn't commonplace.)

:shrug:

edit: and for the record, I'm a good bit older than 18, and don't have any kids. Still don't particularly see the need for stuff like this. It's why I don't play zombie/horror games, for example. Or horror movies. Or R-rated action flicks in general (since those tend to be R-rated because someone thought it'd be "cool" to empty a barrel of blood & guts all over a decent story).

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:34 pm

Gore should be an option but I doubt anything much more than Oblivion will be in it just more realistic. I just want the option to mod some more serious gore to be there.

One thing I still have never understood is that with the constant improvement in physics and collision detection the sheer brutality of hitting someone with a large 2 handed mace or sword over and over with a loud cracking sound as they scream and then finally fall dead being OK with people. However no red stuff! You can beat them in the face repeatedly with a hammer and that is fine but any blood and it is horrible and the rating needs to be upped.

Is taking a 2 handed Hammer and smashing an NPC in the head with ultra realistic sound and physics any less brutal than hitting one with a sword and seeing the wound it makes?