Thanks for the modlist post, xxx_tricky. Yeah I know it's never written in stone. It's more about the really major stuff I'm concerned with, basic FCOM functionality so to say and what the sequence and version numbers should look like. This one can see well from your list, and that's good. Gonna file this thread, was a good one. :thumbsup:


EDIT: Well reading your last post, it seems I cannot file the thread yet... Why did you do that? will read, but nor sure if I know enough of RL inner workings to help... see you later.

If you do want to go back to vanilla leveling after using a leveling mod, you will need to reset this internal count. This can be done after deactivating the leveling mod at the console by doing;SetDebugText 10ToggleDebugTextSetGameSetting iLevelUpSkillCount, <-nnnn>AdvancePCLevelSetGameSetting iLevelUpSkillCount, 10Player.SetLevel Where <-nnnn> is the big negative number shown by the debugging text on the line "Major Skills Advanced: <-nnnn> / ", and  is the level your character was at before doing this. After doing this the debugging text should show "Major Skills Advanced: 0 / 10". At this point you can save your game and continue using vanilla leveling.

But did you do this? You have only talked about uninstalling/reinstalling.

gothemasticator

hehehe sorry. yeah, i actually found FCOM very easy to install. its a little inaccurate at parts but for the most part it was pretty understandable. (remember to install COBL after MMM though, it doesnt mention that)

if you havent found the website for it i can link it to you, but im sure you already found it.

yeah, i dont get what the deal is with RL, i have done everything possible and i still get stuck at level -9.1111 when i do sqv aarealisticleveling.



EDIT- yes i have goth, i have attempted it about 10 times now... either i am doing it wrong or it just plain hates me.

Did you try reinstalling RL with an OMOD? It will set the ini up fior you. Manual and BAIN are not great options for RL. Don't adjust anything and see if that works. Then later adjust small and slow.

Abo may take a day or two to answer, but with urgent questions I've PM'd or emailed him and he usually got back to me in a couple of days.

You do seem to love to open your own threads for just about anything.

If you do reinstall then clean save first.

xxx_tricky, Not a solution but maybe an idea: If you have, try reloading a save game where RL was still working and working correctly (that would be one save before you decided to kick it out again and started "messing". Then follow the disabling routine to the letter or do it with OBMM like Psymon said. How does that come out then?

well the thing is, it never was working from the very beginning. i have even reinstalled the whole game 5 or 6 times in the past few days and RL was one of them that still never worked. i double checked OBSE being correctly installed (which is should have since half the mods i use required it and the game worked) but i dragged over the files again and now the game crashes when some mod tries loading in game.

FML, i am not reinstalling this game a 8 or 9th time. >.<

Well wait a second here - it may have never worked because the ini was not set right.
How did you install it? manually, with BAIN, or with OBMM?

If you want to run many mods then you are just going to have to learn to clean save, ultra-clean (squeeky clean) save, update mods, move mods. In other words manage you mod load order and install.

manage your load order and install (just to emphasize) which can take a fair amount of your time.

You are new to this (evidenced by your many threads which are not really needed) and have yet to learn that just because one mod does not work you do not need to reinstall the entire game. A little dramatic there. One mod does not work? Then shelve it till you get your answer. RL can be added at anytime and will recalc your level based on stats and its ini. You can remove it too, but follow instructions. No need to make sure it is loaded from the tutorial start.

Slow down. You want my load order? It took months to get that built up and even then it is an ongoing work - a WIP if you will.

How many beta mods in your load order - how many 'I'm a playtester' signups have you made? Even then how many conflicts you are bound for ...always inevitible with more than the mods designed to work together (read FCOM).

let me introduce you to a word - this word is NOT. As in it is NOT possible to have the perfect load order completely set up and ready to go and that you can then forget that it is there and play for months.

==================

sorry to sound harsh.

I just skimmed your thread - you have no progress bar? That means you have not properly installed the mod.

ugh, i had all my mods set up right. there were no conflicts or red or orange boxes, no incompatabilities, everything was running in game as it should... everything EXCEPT RL. now its all screwed up the game crashes now. grr. i spent 3 whole days on THIS specific load order. thats not counting the 10 other attempts last week i tried.

my point in this thread though, was i had NO mods period at one point, just simply RL and it still didnt work so i moved on to the rest and now i came back to RL and then now i just somehow ahnilated my whole game because it just crashes... and it worked perfectly fine moments ago. i had everything organized, bashed, and loaded in a decent order (BOSS + several recommendations found around sites).

whatever i just did to OBSE just ruined everything because I cant run the game with OBSE now. ;/

EDIT- Yes, i indeed do have a progress bar... however it never moves from 0% and upon the console check with RL i cant level up at all because i am by default level -9 and I have to be above 0 for it to work according to the threads i have read. Also, I used OBMM for it. Trust me, I DO.. I repeat... I DO read the readmes and follow them to my best accord. I have been going through every single mod over and over.

Well, you need to slow down and start over.

• Uninstall all mods. This should leave you with OBSE still installed.
  
• Start the game. Make sure it works with no crashes. Make sure leveling is working.
  
• If the game with no mods active does not work or does not work right, stop. Get on the forum and get some more help.
  
• If the game does work right with no mods, then add only RL.
  
• If RL does not work, stop. Get on the forum and get some help.

You are doing a lot of things, disordered and not all helpful every time something goes wrong. Do the above in order and then accept the step-by-step help people here give you.

gothemasticator

Then just shelve RL till Abo gets back to you.

If your load order was working without RL it will still work - just take RL out. USe nGCD in the mean time - again not that important a mod. Your are stuck because you are under the very false impression that it all has to be perfect and work from the beginning.

Guess what? You are now a playtester and it is your responsibility to get it right.

Look at my bug report http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1072570&view=findpost&p=15613241 - I'm just trying to play RGO with TOTF and I ran into a bump. Do I reinstall the whole load order? No - my problem I work to find the cause then I work around until the mod author can address it. Helping the mod author - playtesting.

Still didn't answer how you installed it???edit Oh you edited that you did. Maybe an RL user can help if you post your RL ini.


===================

edit 2

With all due respect Go the Masticator - I think he could try just deactivating the mods not full uninstall. for testing. If he really did reinstall that many times he would have learned a lot from that. right?

as a last effort ill take that suggestion goth thanks.

psymon, the thing is, i just messed up OBSE about 30 minutes ago when i replied to tommy the first time somehow. i can run all mods but i can only play with no OBSE or else it will crash.

i can shelf RL until abo can help me if he feels he has the time to do so, but one of abo's posts said it may be OBSE installed wrong so I tried redoing it and now the game is broke and I dont know how replacing 3 files for the OBSE can do anything to that effect.

to your last question... are you referring to how i installed RL? i commented in my edit I used OBMM. I use OBMM for all the mods that can be omod converted. however, maybe OBSE was implemented incorrectly although it was a two step process which was very simple a monkey could do it.

EDIT- I have deactivated all my mods and reactivated the ones that did not require OBSE and it worked fine... it even worked fine with the mods that require it but as long as I boot the game up without the OBSE.

How do you mess up OBSE? what did you do to it? You could reinstall that with a simple extract all on the package.

My impression is that you are going too fast.

Going from manual installs to OBMM took me about a month, a few more months to go to BAIN.

Debugging my load order and finding mod conflicts will never be finished.

You have yet to really begin and the reason is you taking the gradient too quickly - just because a load order loaded does not mean that you have worked the kinks out yet.

Since he specified OBMM install, I didn't think uninstalling the mods was all that drastic. I still think a planned, step-by-step plan with some "stop and ask more questions" points will help a lot, whether it be the list I posted or another. This thread is a collection of unplanned attempts to fix a mysterious problem. Just trying to bring some order to the process.

gothemasticator

P.S. Thanks for getting my name right.

gtm

Are you using OBMM to install my (and other's) mods? If so, all those options will be explained, and you just need to click one yes/no or the options you want. Anyway, for MMO, the default ini file with default settings is good for most players. A few specific features are turned off, but they can be turned on in the ini later.


But you didn't answer Psymon's specific question about how you installed RL. RL comes with an ini file that makes RL NOT work correctly until you have edited the ini file. If you install through OBMM, the script sets those values in the ini file for you, but if not, you MUST do it manually. Have you done so? If not, all your problems with RL had a very simple explanation.

I've got to agree with Psymon in thinking your trying to build your ultimate mod listing way too fast.
I screwed about with mine for seven months before my game became stable enough to play for 2/3 hour periods without major lag/stutter/CTD or running into some kind of conflict.
If not going for a complete re-installment of the game plus mods, I think you should at least disable most and do some testing.
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1004123&st=44# may seem long and boring, but it's a tried and true method of troubleshooting your mods as you go.
Slow down man. The completely trouble free modded game in Cyrodiil has probably yet to happen.

yeah i installed RL via OBMM and the script put me through several options. im confused now, am i not supposed to install any mods at all via Wryne? I was using OBMM for all mods that said in the readme they were omod ready or convertible. and the rest i either extracted manually or used wryne. was this incorrect procedure?

EDIT- just like to add that I have played obliv on ps3 for hundreds of hours so that is why i am modding so much. i have no intention of playing a vanilla game that ive already played hundreds of hours on. ^_^

EDIT AGAIN- so am i NOT supposed to be installing mods via mod installation using Wrye Bash?

I realize there is a gang-up of help going on here, but here's what I think (again, sort of):

• RL seems to be the main problem.
  
• So, let's eliminate all other factors until RL is sorted out.

That means:

• Uninstall all mods, leaving only OBSE installed.
  
• Make sure the game runs fine and levels fine.
  
• Install RL, using the scripted omod install.
  
• Make sure game + RL works fine and levels fine.

Then proceed up the next hill.

gothemasticator

I don't think I remember anyone saying not to mod your game, but adding dozens of mods at once then switching on is a sure fire way for a modded game to run into issues of some type.
Just trying to offer a little advice from someone who may know a little bit more about the modded game than yourself. If you wont take it, then fine. :shrug:

Bye. :wave:

Not sure about a gang up.

gtm is right (... Why isn't it GoTheMasticator then?)

Resolve RL.

I highly suspect the RL ini is to blame if you indeed have a progress bar. As I suggested above - post the ini from RL and maybe somebody who uses it can spot the problem. Or better yet any reader has RL working post that for him to copy and paste into his RL ini.

On a more general note - don't take it personally that there is a gang up. We have all been through this. You should have seen my first thread a year and half ago (thank gosh it is purged) I basically came out of the gate claiming that 200+ load orders were impossible and no one was helpful (not that I'd really asked) and that it was all a joke or conspiracy or both.

Slow down.

One mod at a time. If you have FCOM working then just play that and some UL mods for a while - get used to it then add mods slowly. testing each one for their function. This all at once thing wasted 2-3 months of my life with no game play and no point of reference to how the game should look and play when modded. Each mod you add and add thoroughly and thoughtfully is going to expand your knowledge base and then you will know what you are looking for and want.

Realistic Leveling is probably the best leveling mod, but you know what - it aint like some magic snuff that will suddenly make the game amazing beyond compare (FCOM is about the only thing that comes that close).

Shikishima and myself and others are all going to tell you the same thing.

Really to start an FCOM game there are only a few mods that you even have to have loaded right from the start.
FCOM basic.
The race mod (if you are using one - like the great RBP).
the leveling mod (if not nGCD or RL - those can be added later).

All the rest you can add at leisure. You want Better Cities then add that and after it tears your computer apart then uninstall it and go on try other mods. one at a time.

Then as you get really proficient then you can be like me - trying two mods at a time.

================

[edit] and further ... I use BAIN for most things. But OBMM is great for mods that have complicated ini and scripted installs. Abo's mods fit that bill. NiceOne as well. So use one or the other for each mod install but not both.

[edit 2] corrected my horrendous grammar and spelling and horrible use of acronyms.

thanks for all the replies... i had no intention of sounding mad or arguing with anyone as I know you guys know what your talking about. i was just trying to state that i didnt simply just install a bunch of mods at once. I divided them out. I first started with all the major mods such as overhauls single sized mods that do alot. After those were finished FCOM, I tested it out for 3-4 hours to check if all the loaded mods were working correctly and they were from what I could tell. then I went on to add the immersion mods I had sorted out that I found I liked and added them. these were small mods like RL and other immersive/realism stuff and I tested it after adding those and everything but RL worked. after making this thread and getting help but the darn thing just wouldn't work so I went on to adding the eyecandy mods like lights, weather, terrain enhancements as well as non mod specific stuff that would help improve performance.

THEN, after that I came back to RL and I foolishly messed up something when trying to make sure I had OBSE installed right.

I decided to reinstall the game and start from a clean slate again as it only takes about 5 minutes to reinstall and take it slower than before although I have already sorted out the mods. I am going to follow all of your advice which I appreciate and no doubt will i be referencing anything you guys said while installing these mods again.

I am going to start off with FCOM as there is a full guide on how to install and what orders to install them so at least I cant screw that up and then I will go from there again. I indeed did go a bit too fast and went overboard with the amount of mods I installed. I should have taken my time as things got messy. BUT I am still not sure as to when I should extract the mods via Wrye or to do it manually. I know when to use OBMM but im still a bit iffy on installing mods via Wyre(BAIN its called?). I mean I understand how to use for the most part since I was merging and bashing files correctly. That is most likely the main problem with what I did. I have the feeling I improperly extracted/installed a few mods that required you to manually do it.

Im not going to try installing near as many mods this time around but there are quite a few immersion mods that I honestly dont want to play without and one of those is the Realistic mods.

Ill give a status update in a bit as I am pulling an all nighter but I have the feeling I unintentionally made you all hate me and find me annoying so you wont care nor care to help me anymore lol. I did mod them too fast all at once, but I have spent the past 2 weeks carefully selecting the exact mods I wanted for my game experience so when you recommended I only use a few mods, to me that had kind of defeated the purpose of me going from ps3 to PC. But I am aware I am jumping in on this too fast and I have alot to learn and I am sure you guys get alot of these kind of threads(maybe not as bad as this one). Ill just bump this instead of spamming new threads like I have been doing.

ill probably bump this thread back again once i have a concern and want to ask here first before i do anything.

thanks

Great! You have a plan, and it sounds like you have a pretty good idea what you are doing. Nobody hates you.

Wrye Bash/OBMM/manual install: You're doing good to install what all you can with OBMM. With the rest, if a mod is just an esp, or just an esm and esp, then manual install is just fine. If the mod includes resources (textures, meshes, etc.), then it's best to either write an omod script (you can get help on the forum), or use Wrye Bash's Install feature (which is called BAIN). And, Psymon is the resident expert on BAIN installs. BAIN is different from OBMM, but they both have the advantage of making uninstall pretty painless, removing all the resources, too.

I look forward to reading text of your eventual success!

gothemasticator

Hey it is not a problem - I don't think anyone is mad at you.

Your biggest crime is probably that you played this game on a console ... kidding of course ... well sort of. We kind of have been through this with many players before you and me come to think of it. So much so I wish I could search them out and cut and past. saying the same things.

I made a dodgy attempt at a tutorial for using http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=957424&hl=. See also http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Wrye_Bash/Bash_vs._OBMM http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Bain and of course the Wrye Bash readme.

Using it you can make it so reinstall is never a problem or even needed. It is advanced though.

We say slow down because we know that just having the game load and then killing a few bandits out of the tutorial dungeon is not thorough testing. It is better to play and then as you play features that bug you (after FCOM is up and solid) then look for mods that change that. But FCOM (especially OOO) changes a lot already. Really it does. So throwing on a 100 extra mods can be really disastrous if you don't already know what is what in terms of how it is functioning.

Take my issue with Reneers Guard Overhaul and Tears of the Fiend both very popular mods. The RGO conflict is recent due to, I assume, RGO changes. But that is minor - really minor and if you are going to play a truly modded out game then you have to develop the patience to roll with that. I know Reneer will see my post (and those of others) life can go on until then. No need to hammer through. These mods are in a sense all beta to me. The only difference is that a beta mod is one that is still actively supported while a complete one is not. Even the complete ones can be riddled with issues.

This is the cost of playing a modded game. Troubleshooting. You have to be able to roll with it and work with the modders. That also means taking responsibility for your load order and using the tools appropriately and, of course, not post endless threads that ask questions when the official thread is right there 3-4 entries above or below your thread. That is just impatient and selfish.

It is like reading the forum is like scan ... scan ... oh and OOO question ... scan ... scan ... oh another one and another one ... scan hmmm there is the OOO thread. Wonder why that isn't being used?

Go slow because guess what - once you reach 254 mod limit - your going to have to get creative to have more. Appreciate that you have 150 more to add. Make it fun to collect them, try them, dump them. What is the hurry? You already know how the game ends.

Just one correction about OBMM and omod scripts. Provided the downloaded archive contains one central folder - with all esp/esm/bsa files (if any) and all resource folders, OBMM automatically recognizes this folder and don't need any form of omod script to install it correctly. In OBMM just select "Create", the click on "Add archive" and select the downloaded archive. If the archive contains an omod conversion data folder, it will fill out mod name and version etc. for you. If not, fill in the relevant info yourself before clicking "Create omod".

This is actually one of the 2-3 advantages of OBMM compared to BAIN - as long as you add the compressed archive, OBMM will recognize the central folder if any, and give you a warning if the archive is not correctly packed (e.g. esp files in different folders, etc.). Now, BAIN has 2-3 advantages compared to OBMM as well, of course

Yup. What he ^ said.

gtm

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1072897&view=findpost&p=15598427 :rofl:

xxx_tricky_xxx, nobody hates you! The above link is a must read. And yes definitely bump it again when you have sorted out your things and got RL working again! As Psymon says, going somewhat slow is really a good thing. The more experienced you get with modding your game, the more you will come to this conclusion.