No offence to talkie, he's usually pretty on the money. I just think he's being rather narrow minded on this particular occasion.

I think this idea is sound. Obviously if you're doing things in your head then you wouldn't need a mod to impose these kinds of limits on yourself, but for me, I can be pretty pathetic at even basic counting and I would find this kind of mod helpful if I wanted to force myself to play in a more tactical or realistic way.

For example, let's say I got into a long fight, and I have with plenty of ammo for all of my guns.
- in a vanilla game, I could fight until I ran out of ammo. The only things I care about are if I reload at a bad time or if my guns are gonna break.
- with magazines, I would have had to prepare my magazines beforehand (possibly automatic by waiting one hour, or staying out of combat for a while, etc.)
- with encumbering magazines, perhaps I'd only have 5 magazines that were readily available for my equipped gun, so now I have to think about conserving ammo.
- maybe some of my enemies have big armor on, so hopefully I have 1 or 2 magazines of armor-piercing rounds.
- if I reload often, switching between these same magazines, this essentially lowers my rate of fire and makes me more likely to get caught defenseless. So to reload or not to reload becomes a bigger choice.
- if my magazines are getting empty, then I'd have to consider switching to another gun (assuming I had prepared magazines for that gun too) or maybe a melee weapon

So yes, I can see how this kind of mod would affect my gameplay. Personally I think it would be pretty annoying if I weren't running a realistic or hardcoe kind of playthrough, but if you want to play with magazine-based reloading, why not?

How about this, in my head it seems simple, but I dunno;

[Weapontype] uses [##] [ammotype] that uses [battery/magazine]Shoot half of [##] in [battery/magazine]ReloadImmediately drops remaining [##] of [ammotype] in previous [magazine/battery] on ground as a [battery/magazine] at your feet[Weapontype] is loaded with full [##] of [ammotype] with your inventory reflecting that you lost the entire [battery/magazine]After battle, you must comb area for your expended [Battery/Magazines] and they will be in your inventory once more

I dunno.

I can see Talkie's point here. In and of itself, this mod wouldn't do a whole heck of a lot. My idea though was a more complete tactical makeover, where this would be but one part. I figured that this would probably be the most complicated part, so if this could be done, the rest wouldn't be too bad.

Ideally, I'd like magazines to encumber based on capacity and type, so a 30 round 5.56mm banana would weigh a heck of a lot more than a 10 round 9mm mag. Encumbrance should also slow the player, so it is better for movement if one carries fewer mags.

I'd also like to see DT redone in that DT only counts for what is covered. So, if a player is wearing 30DT body armor, but no helmet, headshots = 0DT. This would mean there'd always be a good idea to wear high DT helmets, and it would make headshots more worthwhile. It would be even better if armor could be sectioned out so different different body parts have different DT based on armor, although I suppose that could be done programmatically rather than scripting each item. I mean, limbs will generally have less protection than torso regardless of the armor type, so no need to modify each armor individually for that.

Another dimension to this: armors have mag carrying capacity limits. So, maybe go for that armor with less DT, but be able to carry more mags for your primary weapon.


I like The3rdType's idea. In real combat, dropping a mag is far quicker than reloading and recovering the empty magazine. So, having 4 full mags, if you reload after firing only a few shots, you then have to go after each of your mags that you dropped earlier. My take on that is that during combat, any reload you do should be a quick reload where you drop the mag, but any reload you do outside of combat would be slower but would recover the mag automatically.

I think everyone here is of their own opinion, and the argument is pointless at best. Talkie, they obviously are set on trying to make the game harder and less fun. Other people, Talkies sees where you're coming from with the idea, just doesn't see the point of trying to put a boring part of real life into a game that's supposed to be fun (however realistic we want to make it).

On that note, there was a mod for FO3 that imposed an ammo count limit, since the game doesn't really support clips (easily). So basically, you could only carry X number of 10mm rounds, X number of 5.56, etc. This would need a bit of working on for NV, with the greatly expanded ammo types, but comparing to form lists of certain types of ammo (pistol, rifle, etc) should work sufficiently. This method would be orders of magnitude easier to implement, and would impose a limit, without all the tedious work of managing clips.

And for reference, http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10921.

Upon seeing what T^3's point is, I think I agree with him, but I still say go for it if ya want to.

It's probably possible, but is the expended effort really worth the return on it?

So wait, you're talking about making a realistic mod with unrealistic clip weights?

Because realistically, clips will almost definitely weigh less than the ammunition in them so their weight should be irrelevant. Might as well start up an inventory bulk mod to go with this.

Actually, adding volume numbers to everything might make an interesting mod alongside a proper realistic weight mod. Much more room for modification/perks with that.

Considering I'm playing on Very Hard/hardcoe and I can 1 shot a Deathclaw or run around in the open while I punch 10 guys with assault rifles to death, yeah....I want to make the game harder. And do you know what I find less fun? Mindless shooting, when you have a million bullets and virtually nothing to take into consideration other than to vaguely point the crosshair somewhere near the thing you want to kill.

Anything to try and put some tension or thought into the combat is far from worthless in my opinion.

So putting something heavier inside something lighter makes the lighter object weightless. If I filled a truck with lead the truck would cease to weigh anything would it? Man, what the hell were they teaching me at school?

What? The comment I quoted was that the weight of the clips would increase inventory management decisions and make you decide not to carry 20 clips. The weight of the number of bullets you carry and how many are inside or outside of clips is irrelevant.

Again...empty clips have weight. Bullets have weight. Clips with bullets in them weigh as much as a clip and bullets. What's confusing you?

When I mentioned encumberance earlier, I was thinking about weight and space. Like, if I had 1000 rounds, and stuck all those rounds in magazines, then I obviously wouldn't have places to put them where I could reach them all during a firefight. So yes, I agree this idea works best if you have some kind of encumberance limit, but also has merit on its own if you simply want to make the game slightly more realistic or difficult.

Personally, whatever anyone else might say about this being the 'boring' part of reality... I am of the camp who believes that if REALITY doesn't find it boring enough to just... gloss over and say 'good enough'... then why should my realism mods? Why do we get to have all sorts of insanely complex and detailed calculations for weight, and damage, and armor penetration power and all those good things people are starting to pump out for the 'hardcoe' realism buffs... but suddenly we come up on using magazines for guns which appear to -have- magazines... and that is the thing that takes it too far?

No, no... it's not any of that other little stuff... but this that pushes it over the edge into being unreasonable?

That, quite frankly, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


Obviously this mod would have a rather noticeable impact on the people choosing to play it... as it would require them to consciously prepare for the battle to come... either using guns for which they have prepared their ammunition, or certain weapons which don't actually use standard magazines and are easy to reload.

Personally, I would love it. I play Fallout as much for the 'survivalist' aspect of things as I do for the storyline and 'quesling' stuff.

I love it when I see ideas like these. Now if only it were more than just an idea.

I'm not confused at all. Unless you make them much heavier than they should be, clips will not be a weight consideration. If you have 20 9mm clips and they weigh 2 pounds all together (completely random number) then you're not going to leave any of those at home because they're "too heavy".

I'd be fine with simply a partial reload not cycling the action. That's one thing that always annoys me in most games. Reload partway through the mag and you cycle the bolt when in reality you would not have to do so. There'd already be a round from the previous mag in the chamber. Not only that but you'd get +1 ammo capacity this way. Reload partway through --> full mag + one in chamber.

What are you talking about man, what kind of screwy world do you live in? Go and get a bag, completely fill it with bullets, then take the bullets out and put them all iin magazines then try and put them back in the same bag.



I was thinking about something like this last night. It would solve the "How many magazines can you carry" problem pretty nicely. You could go on the logic that you could only have 5 or 6 magazines easily to hand, any others would need to be in your bag, which would translate in the game as only being able to have a set amount of magazines pre-filled.



Well I know for a fact that I wouldn't find this a boring or worthless aspect of the game. The Operation Flashpoint/Arma games all have this feature and it's something you're always thinking about during fights and it just adds a touch of realism to the way you think about using your gun. Now if only someone could get rid of the stupid maximum range, add bullet drop and have damage be affected by range.