I'm interested why dont' you want to have those options.

To me it seems like a romance quest or companion seems like an obvious addition to tes. It's an easy way to make a story more engrossing and there's a reason why almost every movie and book involves one. Now whether you get into the whole six scene nonsense is another argument

Dual Wielding weapons? Not sure why you'd be against this. People did it in real life. And it would add another dimension to combat.

A vats type feature just seems inevitable to me after the success of fallout. Though I do consider it somewhat of a cheat and after about an hour it gets very repetitive. It would be the easiest addition to oblivion's stale fighting/magic system.

Todd Howard has said "TES is about the heroic, not the domestic," generally meaning that romance, families, etc, are out.

I don't necessarily agree with him. Plenty of themes in fantasy are fairly domestic, obviously the Prince saving the Princess is probably in love with her, or the dude who's the hero used to be a farm boy. However, a lot of people take it way, way to far, and want companions that are realistic enough to replace real people.

Dual wielding I agree with, it has been done historically, and continues to be done by martial artists. Can all weapons be dual wielded? No. Is it easy? No. But certain combinations just make sense (sword/dagger, sword/hatchet) not to mention that obviously we can carry shields or torches in the offhand (and yet no offensive moves with them)

Vats barely fits in to Fallout. Unless you have a device which can actually stop time, it just doesn't make sense. A realtime scope that could tell you bio-informatics is feasible, but your opponent is not frozen in time. In TES, I can see no equivelent.

Worst part of BG2; but this has a long tradition... Worst part of Secret of the Silver Blades... :laugh:

Agreed. I won't mind it so long as its a PC skill choice, and not free, and not an equal chance at striking with the off-hand.

Vats was awful; awful overpowered, awful aiming bugs, and an awful re-use of the name as an awful acronym.

VATS was a place; an actual location in Fallout 1. VATS in Fallout 3 was a flawed interpretation of 'aimed shots' from Fallout 1. Vats does not stop time in Fallout 3. :shrug:
(if it did... then the PC could walk around behind frozen opponents, or side-step incoming fire). Vats pulls the player out of the real time events and gives them a chance to make use of the targeting interface. When they are done, it uses their choice as the PC's next action. (from the PC and NPC perspective, its all real time)

This was never part of TES, and would seem to go against Bethesda's base design for games; It was a half nod to Fallout that it was done at all.

Well personally I don't expect much in the way of story, or writing... that's never been Bethesda's strong point and likely never will be (unless the design/quest team has been completely fired and re-staffed).

I do however have decent expectations in other areas:

Graphics - The graphics will be good, not amazing. I think people are really building the games graphics up wayyyy too much. The current gen consoles are 5 years old or more... so there is not much more an open world game is going to do that hasn't already been done. If the gameplay stays the same as Fallout/Oblivion, the graphics might be better then Fallout a bit... but they will be far from "amazing". Also, going along with graphics the animations will certainly be better, as will the character models... but again, don't expect drastic improvement since its mostly the same team from Oblivion/Fallout.

AI - I hope this is the area that Skyrim makes a big leap... perhaps as big a leap that was made from Morrowind to Oblivion. I hope the AI has more freedom, and choice this time around and feels more alive. I think that is a realistic goal for Skyrim to be honest. Also, the combat AI in Oblivion had two modes: Full out attack, or run and hide. I expect this time around it might have a little more depth and self preservation skills.

Atmosphere - The atmosphere in Oblivion was great at times, like when you were walking through the wilderness, or exploring caves. Then it had times in which the atmosphere was simply horrible, such as when you would walk into a Tavern filled with people and it was as quite as a tomb. I expect that to change, and for areas like towns and taverns to have a much better feel this time around. The addition of more people, and better ambiance will greatly help this issue (see Fable... this is the one thing Fable did right).

World - I expect the world will be bigger, but not a whole lot. However, it probably will be better detailed and have more variety then Oblivion.

Items/Weapons/Armor - In terms of usable items such as weapons and armor, I expect there to be about the same amount as in Oblivion. Its still not any faster to make 3D models, so to expect a giant leap in the number are armor sets and usable weapons would be irrational.

Side quest/mini games(to include involving game systems) - This is another area in which I expect great things from Skyrim, and the second area that Fable has beat TES games so far (and only those two areas). I don't know if it will be a romance system, crafting system, better housing system, job system, or even some sort of upgrade system... but I expect more side games/systems to keep us busy. Oblivion had a lot of side quests (more are always better), but it lacked things to do other then side quests and I really expect that to change.

------------------

I could go on and on, but those are the main areas I could think of. To be honest I don't think Skyrim will be some amazingly great game that's surprises us with how amazing it is (it could be Oblivion 1.1 and it will still amaze the fan boys). Bethesda isn't going to venture too far from what made Oblivion and Morrowind big hits, so the game is going to be very familiar which is a great thing. I want it to feel like Oblivion (well, feel like Morrowind actually), and not some brand new game that no longer has a TES feel to it. I guess my point is, if your expecting amazing or huge changes... your probably going to be disappointed... if you expect the next evolution of the TES series, then I think its going to be a great day to be a TES fan.

Oh here's something I'm don't have any speculation on at all but feel very strongly about. I don't want any cave, ruin, settlement markers on the compass. This was a major thing that I hated about Oblivion. There weren't any hidden areas to find. Everything was on the compass. You can't discover anything because the compass has already shown you it was there.

I don't even mind quest markers. But I don't want compass markers at all. If you have a compass in your hand, it will tell you what direction you're facing not where the nearest cave is. And unlike fast travel there isn't anyone that can argue "oh you don't have to use it" It's on the screen how can you not use it. Too much hand holding. And hand holding is reserved for: toddlers and couples. Not developer and player. /rant

And that's what I'm saying. Unless it is actually stopping time (which it's not) it does not make sense. I'm guessing the PC would have the same amount of time to aim as the actual player, so stopping the enemy mid-shot really doesn't seem plausible to me. :shrug:

As far as FO: 1, I am not familiar.

We are both not understanding I think.... Time in Vats is for the Player benefit ~it gives you (the player) time to use the clunky user interface to tell the game what you want to hit. It has no bearing on in-game time, or the fight taking place. It is simply a way to decide (as player) what the PC decides to aim for; and from the PC's perspective... its the blink of an eye.

**There is no relation to Fallout 1 in this. Fallout was a strictly turn based combat system; completely different.
(as different as apples & feathers)

*** consider it this way... Imagine pressing pause on a DVD/Blu-Ray movie and opening the menu to turn on subtitles, then pressing play; It is almost the exact same thing with VATS in Fallout 3. You are just making a menu choice, and the action resumes where it left off.

Dynamic shadows.
Better animations.
A more detailed game world than Oblivion.

I'm going to take a wild stab and guess that the game is going to continue to use a broken game engine and be rushed out with nearly no real QA effort and we all receive 'bug fix' patches within the first few weeks... like they did with TES4...and TES3... and FALLOUT... oh and of course the Hardware Issues forum will be flooded with people who need help because of the sub-standard QA done on the game... again.. like always.

This is what I think it will have 70%-99% chance after listening to gamesas through the years and playing FO3/NV


-faction system were you must chose what sides to join.(Highly successful in NV, and a possibility if the "CIVIL WAR" theory is true.)
-bigger sense of culture (kinda hinted through interviews)
-recreational mini-game and/or a changed lockpick system.
-much better gfx. This has been hinted many times. (textures, models, animations, shadows, etc.)
-more voice actors than TES4 (Fo3/NV)
-less exploits and easymode abilities than TES4 (Fo3/NV)
-no fast-travel to every city right off the bat. You have to visit them first. (Fo3/NV)
-unarmed weapons (They were just TOO awesome in FO3/NV and i'm sure some of gamesas see them being highly logical in TES)
-better level scaling. (highly hinted through FO3 and interviews)

I understand what you're saying, but the fact is, when you enter VATS, time stops. Enemies freeze. If something is jumping, it hangs in mid air. After watching several videos, it appears that if you are too close to the enemy, it does not work (they can interrupt your shot) but a space of 10-12 feet is enough to guarantee a headshot, every time. It's a gimmick, there's no readily definable explanation for it. I'm not saying that the explanation that the game gives is that time is somehow being slowed down, but that is exactly what is happening, whether the PC or simply the player are the ones to experience it. And since it seems that the ability stems from technology (Vault-Tec Assisted Targeting) it would appear that the system cannot fit canonically within the Elder Scrolls.

To add to my earlier post in this thread, another area I honestly expect Skyrim to expand to is Co-Op.

I know a lot of people hate the idea of co-op in a TES game, and think that since it hasn't ever appeared in the TES series its not going to happen now. However, co-op is often one of the most requested features for ANY game these days. This is clear by the fact that so many games today feature some form of co-op gameplay, and I honestly think Skyrim will join them and be the first TES game to be multiplayer. It might just be some crappy tacked on tether system that lacks any sort of purpose but I would actually be kind of surprised if co-op was missing from Skyrim.

It doesn't fit with Elder Scrolls (and barely fits in Fallout; its totally different from the series mechanics prior to Fallout 3 ~and that is despite FO1 being turn based) ~but time does not stop in VATS; I can't explain it better than I did before.

"Vault-Tec Assisted Targeting" is a bad gimmick; broken, but loosely based on Fallout 1's targeted shots (which in that game, were not free, and there was no made up magical targeting computer in FO1, and head shots were the 2nd most difficult shot to make ~always!), unlike how it was done in FO3.

Elder scrolls never had it, and shouldn't get it; Its more of a sci-fi thing anyway. It just doesn't seem [IMO] to blend well with high fantasy.

"Realistically ... what do you expect from TESV"

Sleep deprivation.

I don't have any expectations, I know the game will be great.

(some rewriting of my older mails)
As Alduin/Akatosh and other deities are revered differently by different cultures gives the plot makers a wonderful option to make truly epic game with several alternate endings. When we all are again born 11.11.11. from uncertain parents and get freed from a prison, we do not know who we are, who is good or evil, and it is just possible that we can deciede it by ourselves and make the gaming experience very different each time. Also the hints for the civil war and old beliefs different in various cultures makes the story much less black&white and gives opportunity for PC to be truly confused about the choises he has to make as he is unaware what is right and what is wrong. Add to that some zealous priests of Akatosh fighting against determined Nordic sons of Shor. Meanwhile the mer are biding their time and waiting for the men to beat each other so they would have all men as slaves again. It would definitely give an option for background with several factions continuing to struggle for power in World of Skyrim, while the canonized story for single players can continue in next TES.

I'm pretty sure that the only mention of an Akaviri invasion in Skyrim will be in Mai'q the Liar's dialogue.

I get what you're saying, I really do. Perhaps I'm being confusing by using the word "time" rather than "action." Since the only way to stop action is to stop time, however, you can see where the issue becomes confused.

I would equate it to the way that when you access your inventory in ES, "time" stops. If you are being attacked, you open your inventory, and you can grab a potion, or change weapons. Yes, as soon as you exit, the action resumes, BUT you are armed or refreshed or w/e.

This system makes partial sense, because hey, if we had that sword strapped to our scabbard or that potion in our belt, we would just reach down and grab it, nearly instantaneously. And it even prevents you from changing weapons mid-attack. But, you could change your whole wardrobe. That's slightly ridiculous.

Now, I would understand a slightly "bullet time" mode, as that would simply translate in the the PC having more focus, or his years of experience quickening his reflexes, and that being the only way to translate to the actual player. But the pausing inventory and the suspension of action add turn-based elements to combat systems which were never designed that way. As I said, there are some plausible excuses in some situations, but none of them explain being able to change from a robe into armor or to precisely aim at the (stationary) head of an enemy, without some kind of "time stop" effect. Even if time is not actually being stopped.

Great post... very inspiring. Now if only I could figure out what the hell it has to do with my post you quoted about co-op, I'd be set.

Just a shot in the dark here, but if your trying to say that the story is going to be so amazing, and the gameplay so deep that its simply not going to allow for co-op... I think your creating very unrealistic expectations for Skyrim, and have never played a Bethesda game before. Because if there is one thing Bethesda CANT do, its make a deep game. I'd go as far as to say Bethesda has made some of the most shallow, but extremely vast, games in recent times. Besides, no matter how deep the game or the quests you can always just drop another player in and it will work fine (many other games have done it, and been far deeper then any TES game to date). There might be balance issues, and the second player might need to be prevented from interacting with NPCs... but it would be very possible.

Its a problem with the design. I've played other RPGs where the inventory was realtime (Diablo :shrug:; Arx Fatalis, Baldur's Gate, Eye of the Beholder); I've also played RPG's that specifically prohibit changing armor in combat. The original Fallout charged AP's to enter inventory while in combat (but once there, it was just as bad as FO3 or Oblivion... You could use as many stims/potions as needed to heal completely and even change armor IIRC).

TES/FO3 has the engine set so that its either in game (real time) or in-menu (everything stops).

I don't equate VATS with the inventory though... Inventory lets you use whatever you have to heal, buff, and alter your defensive and offensive ability instantly; Vats just pauses the game while you pick your target. What VATS does that FO1&2 did not (not in the same way), was let you cue up shots. Technically you do this in Fallout 1 every time its your turn, but the AP system is different and the AP costs are different, and afterward everyone else does it to you. Fallout 1 played by double edged rules; Fallout 3 plays favorites to the PC, and gives unlimited ammo to the NPC attackers. Its royally screwed up. Its not something I'd like to see done in Skyrim or other future TES games.

TES combat was always the FPP simulation, "be there, live it" kind of experience; an attempt at realism. The VATS idea would pull you out of it, and has no history in the series anyway.
**Moot point to me though :shrug:, I almost never play an RPG as though living it, or being there... I play almost all of them as an observer of the PC in their own environment.

*** I expect more of the same, but with better textures ~meshwise, its still has to run on an Xbox, :shrug:
(I'd love to see them incorporate the spell casting method from Arx Fatalis ~but I don't expect them to do it.)

I EXPECT....

Nothing more than another ES game which will continue to feed my addiction for ES games...and that I will not put down for another 4 or 5 years.

I expect a story where you are a person who was captured by a certain group of people and then you get freed by a member of the blades. He'll tell you to find the GreyBeards at the top of Throat in the Mountain and it will eventually leads you to get a blessing and vision from Talos where he orders you to destroy Akatosh because he has been corrupted by Man, or the actions of Martin Septim when he became the Avatar of Akatosh. The Nords of Skyrim are mixed as some are probably going to be loyal to Talos and some that are loyal to Akatosh and you will become the Dragonborn and probably have to rebuild the Amulet Of Kings so that you can recapture Akatosh or something like that.

I really need the GI mag Article as that will make things so much simpler to speculate on.

No, I am just telling that a good co-op or MMO needs a suitable background story. In Oblivion the story was entirely solo-player oriented, although in Morrowind there were elements in the setting that could have been a good background for multi-player game. Now all little I currently know about Skyrim, suggests there may be a plot and background that would make a suitable world for multi-player version too. That game, however, won't be TESV (or TESVI either), but a different brand (like "Elder Scrolls World of Skyrim - choose your faction: Shor or Akatosh"). The canon of the TES-games however seems to be continued as it is and targeted for single players - purely for business reasons. It seems to create enough hype and cashflow just as it is now.

Assuming skyrim is based after The infernal city novels and Umbriel is destroyed I'd like to have an area with the ruins of the floating city crashed into a mountain or something. Or an expansion to go find umbriel

I expect Bethesda to blow me away.
I mean they have a new engine and everything.