[Melanie]

Checked the performance on the batch of IC meshes that were provided - after removing those which weren't _far.nifs. Baseline performance with 1.9.1 and the IC plugin activated = 21fps. Standing on top of the bridge tower on the west end of the Talos Bridge, facing the IC. Same test after installing the updated meshes wavers between 22 and 23fps. So there does appear to be some small improvement which I would expect to become even greater with more meshes optimized in this manner.

Though I'm surprised by the 21fps on the IC stuff to begin with. That used to be sub-10 level before. PyFFI advancements are the only thing which could account for the difference. Either that or my system has suddenly decided to become more generous with its performance

[Kate Norris]

Tested Metallicow's far-nifs
I changed the texture paths to lowres
I looked from the Wayshrine of Dibella to the Imperial City (raining+evening, seeing Talos Bridge+IC+IC Waterfront+IC Arcane University)
switched to the console
49 fps without Metallicow's far-nifs (RAEVWD 1.9.1 QTP3)
51 fps with Metallicow's far-nifs (RAEVWD 1.9.1 QTP3 + optimized meshes)

+ 2 fps

[Brιonα Renae]

I'm gonna test these as well. If my results are good, then I will have to ask for more ByFFI'd meshes.

I'd help if I knew the first thing about Blender. I've never even downloaded it.

Metallicow, you said it takes you 4 - 12 hours for one mesh?

[e.Double]

I'm gonna test these as well. If my results are good, then I will have to ask for more ByFFI'd meshes.

I'd help if I knew the first thing about Blender. I've never even downloaded it.

Metallicow, you said it takes you 4 - 12 hours for one mesh?

I started a WIPzish thread It's just called BYFFI so not to clutter Arthmoors thread.

Most far nifs only take a couple of min. sometimes more if I want to reUVmapp them to make them smaller. sometimes I have to chop the texture up into sections to get it to work out right.

But if you really want to see a 'butchered' mesh by me.
A great example is the meshes\architecture\bettercitiesresources\imperialcity\ic main\icinnerwall01market.nif
from BBC.
Don't fall off your stump laughing if you open it with nifskope. That is the actual mesh ingame. I'd say it took about 12 hours. I really thought hard on that one.
It's only useful for BBC obviously.

Anywho, everyone please quit cluttering this thread and clutter mine if you have comments.

[Travis]

@Metallicow: Could you be clear as to your intentions with the Byffi'd (or Pyffi'd) meshes? I mean, are you developing a mod...asking to help Arthmoor or what? I checked out the far nifs as well, and did in fact find a few FPS lying around that no one was using. I'm sure Arthmoor wouldn't be hurt if you're helping get more performance as well as visual stimulation. His mods are specially designed to enhance my fun. :biggrin: But I'm also sure he would want to inspect any mod that would include his name or the name of any mod he's had a hand in, I do know he has spent an enormous amount of brain power working out the bugs in Vanilla plugins and models. In fact, IIRC, when I started modding my game his postings led me to smoother gameplay and hours of surprise immersion.

@Arthmoor: All Natural is interfering with mah RAEVWD: hurricanes in between Leyawiin and Bravil, can't see mah hand in front of mah face! Woot!! :tongue:

[Robert Jr]

It would seem sensible to include http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24701 in the OP. I know most people use BAIN these days, but for those few old stick-in-the-muds it might be handy for easy reference.

Vac

[Mariaa EM.]

It would seem sensible to include http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24701 in the OP. I know most people use BAIN these days, but for those few old stick-in-the-muds it might be handy for easy reference.

Vac

This old stick-in-the-mud agrees. :yes:

[Romy Welsch]

It's been inserted with the install instructions, below the package listings. Seriously though, BAIN > OBMM, why wouldn't you use it?

[Scared humanity]

It's been inserted with the install instructions, below the package listings. Seriously though, BAIN > OBMM, why wouldn't you use it?

I've been spoiled by scripted installs :frog:

[electro_fantics]

I've been spoiled by scripted installs :frog:

I'm just an old dinosaur. I used to do everything manually, then a couple of years ago, finally started using OMODs. The last time I played Oblivion (back in early '09 or so), BAIN was still new and I never learned it because I had everything of mine already working well with the old ways (and I tried messing with it once or twice and couldn't figure it out at the time). This time, my only excuse was I had orgotten about BAIN until I was about two-thirds of the way done installingmy mods. I did use more OMODs than ever this time around, probably at least 90% of my mods.

I'll probably get around to learning how to work BAIN the next time I have to reinstall Oblivion and my mods. :shrug:

[Astargoth Rockin' Design]

Does that make me the only person who prefers to install stuff manually (with regular backups of my Data folder in case I need to revert)? Not to derail the thread any further, I just find it simple enough to copy the necessary files and enable whatever esp, and if necessary merge stuff or update my bashed patch. I've even gone as far as unpacking an omod in order to copy things manually, though I do have half a dozen or so mods activated as omods in OBMM. I guess it just gives me the feeling of FULL CONTROL, heh.

[April D. F]

Does that make me the only person who prefers to install stuff manually (with regular backups of my Data folder in case I need to revert)? Not to derail the thread any further, I just find it simple enough to copy the necessary files and enable whatever esp, and if necessary merge stuff or update my bashed patch. I've even gone as far as unpacking an omod in order to copy things manually, though I do half half a dozen or so mods activated as omods in OBMM. I guess it just gives me the feeling of FULL CONTROL, heh.

Yup I use OBMM or BAIN. It makes it much easier to uninstall mods more than anything else. Both programs will find all the resources used by a mod and remove them for you. I really do not want to install RAEWVD manually and especially not AWLS!

[Anna S]

Maybe I've just been lucky or lazy enough that I haven't had to remove anything substantial, the kinds of changes I make tend to be along the lines of adding a few distant view rocks then removing them later when I decide I want leaner performance, and for the same reason enabling then disabling the IC for RAEVWD. Running TES4LODGen again and again. Just endless silly tweaking. I imagine if I wanted to install/remove any large overhauls frequently I'd find BAIN far more useful. Though my Data folder is probably filled with unnecessary bloat from mods I used briefly then disabled without removing the content, heh, I guess I could be far more organized.

But having installed both RAEVWD and (I think) AWLS manually, I wouldn't say RAEVWD's a hassle at all. It was one of the first mods I got my hands on and I had no real confusion about what to copy, whereas AWLS has so many options it throws you for a loop. And more options is a good thing! But in comparison RAEVWD is simple. I mean, I find All Natural installation to be simple, but there are people who are for some reason terrified of using Wrye Bash, so I bet AN has gained a reputation for being some laborious process when it's not at all. Dammit, all you have to do is read instructions anyway! I don't think there are many mods that are like "now for this next step you're going to have to do an internet scavenger hunt which will reveal to you the address for this sword mesh. Your first clue is..." Anyway, sorry, tangent!

[Sherry Speakman]

Hi,

I'm running this mod on version 1.9, and after I added raevwd-cities.esp, I can see the low-rez version of the meshes overlapping the normal ones when I'm inside town.
It also happened with a chapel in the wilderness. To clarify, if I select the building on console and disable it, I'm left with a low-rez version.
Good to note that the low-rez buildings only show up (sometimes) after I do an interior - exterior switch.

Also on some cities the low-rez meshes have lit windows. I don't recall if it's an AWLS feature.

any help would make me happy.

[Wane Peters]

Sorry, Arthmoor. I didn't intend to generate so many OT replies in your thread. I am redacting my post and moving that content to another thread to minimize further clutter in your yard.

=====
Back OT, RAEVWD rocks. Thank you so much for that and your other wonderful contributions.

[Sunny Under]

Slightly off-topic, but I've seen this kind of comment so often I feel it ought to have an answer...

Still o/t, but I need to add:
Very nicely expressed, and something I can sympathise with in more than one way.

Vac

[Big mike]

I mean no disrespect.

None taken, but do keep in mind that many of your reasons are also why a lot of modders support either one format or the other and often not both at the same time, at least not without help. I can sypathize with your situation but you also need to consider that it applies to those making and packaging the mods just as much as it applies to those using them.

From a modder's perspective, OBMM is not a friendly tool. With BAIN, I simply need to make folders named in such a way that the utility can process them as subpackages. I don't need a script even because BAIN will provide checkboxes to handle installing the archive without doing a thing - bonus being the USER doesn't have to do anything special either.

BAIN even provides a way to do project and release management with simple clicks of a couple of menu options.

Honestly, I don't even know how to make OBMM create a package from a bunch of loose files stored somewhere on the drive. I poked around with trying it once or twice and determined it wasn't worth whatever hassle was involved and so I simply stuck to doing things manually until BAIN came along and filled the hole.

I'd love to know how I can instantly, transparently, seamlessly and completely switch all control of installed mods from OBMM to BAIN, including shader tweaks like Timeslip's nighteye shaders and Detailed Terrain. AFAIK, BAIN has no idea WTF I've done in OBMM and this is impossible. Correct me?

Instantly? I don't know about that, but if the archives you're dealing with are in a form OBMM can install, generally you can just drop those same archives in and BAIN will know how to handle them as well. Unless the archives you're using are all in the .omod format. You do have to copy them yourself, it won't just find them for you.

BAIN doesn't handle shader installs though, so that's one area where OBMM still holds sway. I don't know if there are plans to have BAIN do that.

The one thing BAIN handles better is what makes it the more ideal choice. Resource conflicts. BAIN keeps detailed track of which mods install what files and will unpack the correct versions of any overlapping resources if a mod is removed that shares files with another. OBMM doesn't keep this sort of detailed record and you will end up using whatever the last copy of something is, even if that happens to be a buggy older version of those files.

[lilmissparty]

BAIN can now install shaders but not merge or edit them like OBMM can. It can also now install OBSE plugins.

I quote links from another thread for more on BAIN:

For BAIN here is my http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/, http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35230, http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/ (for all around help). Another factor is are you going to use a bashed patch - many mods require it. If so then Again BAIN. Right up front I'm biased toward BAIN - read my thread for why.

No there is not a OBMM to BAIN conversion program.

[Marion Geneste]

Honestly, I don't even know how to make OBMM create a package from a bunch of loose files stored somewhere on the drive.

You can select folders and files and add them into the OMOD maker, but of course, OBMM doesn't tell you what's actually on the inside once you've done that and then stores them in a file format that you can't see inside. So if you were going to make an OMOD package containing those 'loose files' (and I know you've got no plans because BAIN is better for installation), you're better of getting them all together in a location with the proper file paths and the like, putting them into an archive and adding that into the OMOD as a whole.

[Anthony Santillan]

So I'd have to package the files in order to ... package the files for OBMM? That's just silly. May as well just distribute the manually packed archive if that's the case.

No, I think I'll stick with BAIN. As if nobody saw that coming

[michael flanigan]

This is why installing everything manually is secretly the best option. Because then you never have to decide between OBMM and BAIN! Ha ha!

I'd gladly give lyobovnik some of my free time if such a thing were possible. Vacuity and Arthmoor too, but only for being my favorite modders. I practice favoritism when transferring my abstract concepts as if they were concrete things.

[Dragonz Dancer]

No, I think I'll stick with BAIN. As if nobody saw that coming

Amen to that.

[Roberta Obrien]

Actually the closest you could come to having compatibility with both is to use TES4Files to package your mod. Create an archive out of that, and you can load into OBMM and BAIN. Doesn't work so well for something as complex as RAEVWD though... So we let Arthmoor stick to the BAIN package and TheNiceOne comes along afterwards and packages that for OBMM TheNiceOne has created anhttp://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24701 for this.

[Richard]

AFAIK, BAIN has no idea WTF I've done in OBMM and this is impossible. Correct me?

Another OT - Sorry Arthmoor but no-one has addressed the above - After installing anything with OBMM (I use it for Surazals Sensual Walks, everything else is BAIN) (or even if a user was to install something manually instead), going into Wrye Bash Installers and doing a full refresh re-records everything in your data folder and sub-folders, and re-records everything in your Bash Installer zips (de-compressing each as it goes), for the purpose of annealing your installation. Even doing crc checks on every one of those files (so if you have a random read/write error on one of your installed files Wrye Bash knows to replace it with a fresh one pulled out of the zip) - Not a single file is over-looked. You could use OBMM for all your installations, not using BAIN, and still load up Wrye Bash afterwards to benefit from creating a bashed patch.

Wrye Bash will not look at your data folder, decide one of the files was not installed by Wrye bash and go deleting files you installed by another method ..... Corrected

I think replying and reading this topic probably took more time than say having a look at the first 6 pictures in my Wrye Bash Pictorial Guide (no download necessary really, all the images are uploaded too), RAEVWD is as easy to install via BAIN as it would be via OMOD, and the biggest time taker (as is the case with all mods no matter what installation method) is reading the extensive readme so you understand the technicalities of modding your game. I think OMODs instill a false sense of plug-n-play ease of use, and probably the main reason for users repeatedly asking simple questions which have already been extensively answered.

Edit: I think Malonn is working on a Wizard for RAEVWD, though since requested publicly its all gone quiet and mysterious - Any news on a scripted install?, or is this going to be a part of the next update also incorporating the recent patch, possibly more Pyffi'ing? ( I really wanted to resist any questions here, having noticed the recent plans for T.I.E ) ....

And +1 for Decrepit request below, I think that would be a nice separate optional install.

[Naomi Ward]

I've got an easy one... I think.

At present I run RAEVWD with everything selected except city plugins (esps), the two City Architectures related sub-packages, and the high-res stuff. That's fine for the most part, though I'm sometimes tempted to add in City Architecture and see the whole of Verona Village. But that's another matter.

After having installed UL Cliffs of Anvil and the Cliffs+GoldCoast+Seaview landscapeLOD, it dawned on me that in all this time I've never seen the Anvil Lighthouse at distance. I'd like to. I assume I could simply enable City Architecture and VOILA...lighthouse. But for now I'd prefer to limit myself to the lighthouse alone. Looking through extracted RAEVWD files, it seems easy enough. These two files in meshes\architecture\anvil specifically mention it:

• anvillighthouse01_far.nif
  
• AnvilLightHouseBaseEntrance_far.NIF

Since I obviously already have RAEVWD Core installed, which looks to contain all needed Anvil textures, can I create a simple RAEVWD_AnvilLighthouse_meshes BAIN package from those two files and at last be able to see the lighthouse from afar, or is there more to it than that?

Thanks in advance.

-Decrepit-