I can understand differing perceptions on Lorkhan. I can understand differing perceptions on Daedra and Aedra, as well.
But in some cases cultural takes on various mythical figures in TES are entirely incompatible.



In Altmer and Imperial mythology, Anui and Akatosh are parallels to Alduin, but benevolent. Are they all one and the orsame?
Dunmer see Daedra as their ancestors. Is this considered to be a direct descendency or a more symbolic relationship (this belief was the basis of their transformation and exodus from Aldmer society- so they don't consider Daedra their ancestors because they taught them how to transform)?
Redguards.... Redguard theology is completely and totally different from everybody else's.

I get that there's supposed to be some mystery, that people ingame and even us are meant to be unaware of all the details- but at this point TES mythology is starting to look downright postmodern.

Are there any areas where we have certitude? Is the Monomyth right?

Discuss.

My wonderfully tiny mind only has this to say when it comes to deities and such.

Lady Azura is all.

I don't think Alduin is the same as Akatosh, but rather a creation of Akatosh.

I think they handled it pretty well with the whole, 'Alduin claims that he is the avatar of Akatosh'. So, it would have been possible with him to be a so-called avatar of Akatosh.

I believe in Cromm, and no one else.

Yep. The basic takeaway from the monomyth is that everyone believes in basically the same core narrative (of creation), but remembered through the filter of cultural biases and other traditions. Consider the parallels between Alduin and the Redguard Satakal, for example.

Christians think Jesus was the messiah, son of god, savior
and there's a bunch of them disagreeing on stuff as well (catholics protestants etc.)
Muslims believe Jesus did exist but was none of those things, they have muhamed as their prophet
Rastafari's believe Jesus returned on earth as emperor Haile Selassie etc.
then there's Buddhists who believe none of the above but something completely else entirely, karma, reincarnation and all that jazz
and let's not even get started on stuff like Scientology

and that's all withing the same species
not so weird to imagine different sentient species would all devise different religions
some with completely different premises and others "evolving" into different kinds due to years of cultural and political influences

think they did a damn good job portraying religion in the TES universe
and lore contradicting itself is a big part of this
none of the real life religions are the same as they were 100 or a 1000 years ago

Alduin is the "first child of Akatosh". It's been said by... highly trustworthy sources. Anyway, the whole "Alduin=Akatosh" dispute was made due to lack of information. Akatosh created the dragon who then became evil themselves, forcing Akatosh to create the Dragonborn to face him.

My personal theory is that the aedra and daedra or basically transdimensional beings capable of magic so advanced, that to mortals they seem like gods.

The pantheon of major lords and ladies, in both opposing camps, are not by default good or evil but closer to rival political factions, with personalities that reflect of their own personal characteristics exaggerated into absurdity through immortality. You constantly meet references to other of these beings whom are not of the major pantheon, and caught up in their own power struggles, often playing out their political wars in the plane of Nirn.

I'm sure lore contradicts me, but this is how the whole business has always appeared to me, I've never studied the lore beyond reading books in game.

Yup. First born.

When the Aedra sacrificed parts of themselves to create the mortal world, and the Daedra are spirits that refused to take part in that act (and thus have all of their power, unlike the Aedra) the term god is a reasonable thing for mortals to call them.

I see, so I'm not wrong, but not right either.

I always loved that TES manages to out do a lot of pen and paper rpgs in the depth of the lore. A lot of CRPGs that weren't already based on PnP were usually satisfied with "This good god, this bad god, now.. here sword go fight bad god"

So if Alduin isn't dead..

What the hell are we gonna do when he comes back? Lay down and die?

Yeah that was the retconned version :sadvaultboy:

Think of it this way: Akatosh sent the Dragonborn into the world so he could send Alduin to Akatosh. When Akatosh decides its time for the Kalpa to be ended, nothing will be able to stop it.

Haskill says "no".

Yep.
The whole plot of Skyrim focuses around Alduin's arrogance and defiance of his destiny.

The world will inevitably end at the end of every kalpa.
Alduin's destiny, as bound by his father Akatosh, is to eat the world at the end of said kalpas, so that his father may rebuild it anew.

But Alduin's arrogance got in the way, so he sought to ignore his destiny and end this world prematurelly in order to make it his own, much to Akatosh's disgust.

If you keep philosophizing with Parthurnaax, he'll tell you that the world WILL have to end eventually no matter what,so that another may take it's place.
He also states Alduin will likely try to dominate that world too, to which the Dragonborn answers "I don't give a damn about the next world, I just don't want this one to end just yet"


Argeirn complements that Akatosh WILL bring Alduin back, to fulfill his true destiny which is to eat the world, AT THE CORRECT TIME [which is probably thousands or even millions of years away].

Not quite. Arngeir hypothesizes that Alduin might be loosed again at the end of the time, but he doesn't claim this with any certainty, he merely offers it as a possible explanation for why the Dovakhiin didn't absorb Alduin's soul.

Except that Akatosh was a deity create by Alessia in 1E243 to appease both Nordic and Elven parts of her empire Unless we ignore everything dealing with Alduin, Akatosh, and Auriel from previous lore, it's not as simple as Alduin being made by Akatosh.

Yes, the Monomyth is correct. Most of them are much more alike than you realize, it's just that they're telling the story in different ways, or are perhaps even telling different parts of the story. Redguards line up well with Altmer and Nordic beliefs, Imperials aren't too far off. The Dumer are the most divergent but according to recent letters the Dunmer are technically correct in their view as well, just in a completely different light.

As has been said many times in other threads, this IS NOT a literal firstborn. We're told dragons aren't born, or hatched, therefore it must be a metaphorical statement (and as a metaphor it is easily meshed with previous knowledge).

Alduin is the Nordic Akatosh. He eats the world because the Nords believe that he will.

I'm still a little confused, though. Mythopoeia is a hall of mirrors, there is one Akatosh, but many reflections, all equally real.

I keep seeing this argument a lot, but have yet to really understand it. He's the Dragon God of Time, just with a new name and shiny new pro-Man bias. I think you've said in another thread today that the Marukhati didn't really do anything to him, b/c Akatosh is just another way of looking at Auriel, but I always felt that they did do something (else, why have the Dragon break for so long?). This is getting sidetracked from my main point, though...


It shouldn't matter WHEN Akatosh is created, the exact same as it doesn't matter WHEN the Tribunal ascended. They made it so they always were, which means they never weren't. It reminds me of something I read, once, let me see if I can find it...

Ah-ha, here we go (outside source incoming):
If you don't let me in, I will turn you into a demon half-face waitress with a crush on her boss, and i'll make it so you've been that from the beginning of time to now and you'll never ever know if you were anything else and it will itch inside your head worse than little bugses. - Delirium to one of Lucifer's servants in Neil Gaiman's "Brief Lives"

The idea being that if you make it so something IS, in such a massive way (like, say, by causing a Dragon Break), it always is, was, and could potentially forever be so. Akatosh IS, which means Akatosh was, even in the Dawn.


Did... did I make any sense?

Akatosh is the name that Alduin refers to the Dragon God as, actually. That name had to come from somewhere. Maybe it's from the dragon tongue, long forgotten until Alessia needed a legit name to apply to her exciting new rebranded religion.

As far as Alduin's nature: as far as I see it, he's an avatar of the Dragon God, something akin to Pelinal, divine and yet not at the same time, and fittingly immortal in reflection of his living and eternal parent, much as Shor's mortal avatars seem destined for a violent life and violent end.

Ald son of Ald, [censored]es.

Alduin is the first-born of Akatosh because there is no difference between kin and self. Akatosh is the over-soul, his aspects many, Alduin first among them, as he is world-eater, father and son of his self that fathers and succeeds his self. People talk like Aka is a person like they talk like Talos is a person. It's hard to imagine an intelligence-swarm where every node is in itself an intelligence.