If, however, a mod did this while referencing events and situations extant in the rest of Tamriel, justified by research, existing material and common sense, it would be more lore-friendly than the MQ.

Like Mankar Camoran you mean?

How did Mankar Cameron, whose mother was Bosmer and whose father Haymon (the Camorran Usurper) was Bosmer with a Breton mother come to be a Septim?

His ancestors may have gotten Septim blood along the way. Other characters such as the Orc king Gortwog are said to have a trace of the dragon blood also.

Nah. Reality check please. If all those people and their family have Septim blood after 400 years, imagine how many would share Alessias blood. It would make make finding an heir a very simple proposition. You put on that Amulet.

But this discussion about blood and the Amulet has been done through and through, the books done of as Imperial superstition and ignorance. Who can wear the Amulet is determined on a principle akin to Divine rights where those fit to rule are so ordained by a higher power. You must be of Royal Blood.

Now about that Totem.



Now the totem tells you you must be a Septim, but I reckon this is the way it was made for the rare occasion it actually got lost. So looking at who can use the Totem, you only have to Rule, be a crowned head.

I didn't know Alessia had descendants. I had the impression the second Emperor was chosen, not hereditary.

As for Uriel Septim, I don't understand how the game mentions he is a 'direct' descendant of Tiber Septim. The direct line ended after the death of Empress Katariah's son.

While I agree in the sentiment that the MQ had holes, the painful fact remains that when Beth writes it, it is canon, but if a user-generated mod makes changes to the central story, it has no such fall back. In short, the lore gets altered if and when Beth decides to write something iffy, but user mods that do the same thing are left without such fall-back insurance.

PS - I should say that I don't really see anything wrong with such re-writes, as long as the concept/ story is interesting (as this one is), but when all is said and done, it's just that a gamer's alternate story (however interesting and fun) can't step on the developer's suggested story arc and at the same time be considered as lore-accurate or non-contradictory.

Morihaus being the only actual Man-Bull, I figure that "Belharza the Man-Bull" could only be Alessias son. As with Martin the election to Emperor could be seen as a formality.

Anyway, it was an argument against actual blood relations being relevant.



Imperial superstition and a perhaps desire to keep thing simple and clear for new players.

True in terms pedantic (in the sense overly precise with no offence intended, please read on) but I believe the spirit of the OP is that he is seeking to use a sound foundation of Lore so that in diverging as is necessary for his mod he can pay due deference to it and his mod can be considered Lorefully legitimate - accepting that his is not a Dev-work, but a mod. In fact he says he wants his mod to be as Lore accurate as possible - clearly that is accepting that he wishes to explore what might safely be viewed as an Alternate History - a sound literary tradition.

To my way of thinking if the Lore says: 'The Dunmer believed in the writings of St Blobby the Boot and according to him the moon was red' and yet as a modder you write: 'Blobby the Boot was a perennial alchoholic with permanently bloodshot eyes who could only see one color - guess what that color was' then you are basing your mod on Lore and paying it due deference whilst contradictin it. In short informed criticism or alteration that pays due respect to the Lore. If you misinterpret or ignore the spirit of modding then no Loreful mod is possible and that would mitigate against the Construction Set because you would be saying that no blade of grass could Lorefully be added or removed. But since the Devs saw fit to go to a LOT of trouble to create and include the Construction Set then modding = modifying is Loreful. I have always talked about Lore here in this spirit and taken a lot of stick for doing so, but if you cannot dream anew where is the mystery?

Proweler
Since Dagon is Mankar's sponser and Mankar is totally opposed to the Dragon and given the purpose of the Amulet is designed to be opposed to Dagon, and the actual heir is opposed to Mankar, who is left to empower Mankar and judge him fit to rule? Apparently only Mankar and Dagon might want that - with both having placed themselves outside the Empire and opposed to it's very existence. I can see no basis at this point to argue that there is an effective in-game higher power that would support Mankar. If you can point to one then that will be a welcome revelation, otherwise it is another of those 'little inconsistencies' that someone will just have to weasel out of or hold their hands up to.

Whether it was the 'spirit' or not, the stated goal of the OP was to have a lore-accurate mod that did not contradict in-game elements. It's not being pedantic, it's reading what was written. If the OP wants what you typed above, that's fine. My original comment concerned the original post, in which the goal was clearly stated - and it wasn't what you listed above. The remainder of the first post was dedicated to asserting that there were insufficient proofs in the game as to the claim that Martin is Uriel's son in the lore. So there was no intention shown of making a mod that is knowingly divergent from the lore - the OP directly asked whether Martin was truly Uriel's son in the game canon, and whether the game had proven it sufficiently.

Given the OP's contention on that issue, it is entirely possible that he thought it would be feasible to write this mod without contradicting canon. Nothing wrong with doing that, but like I said, if any mod alters such a central piece of any game's story, it can't be considered even slightly lore-accurate, and it will definitely be in contradiction with in-game elements.

Ah - I see your point - but I look at it differently - and maybe I am being pedantic because I see contradicting as saying that what someone has said in-game was not said. On the other hand I see suggesting that the speaker was not aware of other events, had been misled or lied may be extracting new meaning or working around what was said. However the reason for suggesting that someone in-game lied etc has to make strong sense (unless the plot requires a weak lie ) in terms of what has gone before or it is disrespectful to the commonsense of the listener or reader - and that may affect the player negatively too, thereby being harmful to the Lore.

If the modder is altering the sense of things he/she should make it clear that he/she is exploring an alternate history. I know people can miss such disclaimers or heads-up. That has happened to me when someone failed to read a Forum Description and took some of my stories as actual in-game Lore (and I had to correct their misaprehension) but it's the spirit and intent of the modder that matters. So once proper deferance is made my way is the modder is then free to make what he can of the Lore.

And I accept that different people see the same thing differently. I've not tried to 'forbid' others to do stuff that was different from my own vision on principal - just so they show proper respect for the original content (and make something reasonably sincere, attractive and interesting) I can respect their way of doing things no matter it differs from the original or my preference, but reserve for myself the right to an opinion as to what I see as best practice and to state that as the way to go.

There is an exception to that. When people working together on a project (even if their stuff is good) start going in directions that are not compatible with the progress of the project then someone has to step up and say so. That's not so much about what you should and should not do, but about eventually being able to arrive at a mutually agreed end-product or at least make some kind of sensible progress.

I agree - while I share in the disappointment of weak canon and confusing lore scenarios, I think that such things do give users opportunities to exploit those weaknesses in the lore by writing original stories and working them into new content. I don't think being contradictory to canon is a bad thing at all, especially when said canon rests on weak foundations. The only point I was raising was that this particular story is necessarily divergent from Beth's published canon - but by no means should that stop the modder from moving forward.

Bethesda made the character Martin to be Uriel Septim's illegitimate son. He is Uriel Septim's son. If there was a twist i think they would have added it or told us by now.
Patrick Stewart did the voice of Uriel Septim. Patrick Stewart is a pimp. That makes Uriel Septim a pimp. he could have hundreds of illegitimate kids. Why doubt?