Really poor FPS in Elsweyr Anequina mod! : IV

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:50 am

.....if it has to do with parts of the Iliana's Elsweyr Deserts of Anequina mod's latest 2010 version and it's July 2010 updates containing just too much High-resolution eye candy in the city of Dune and it's environs? Everytime I'm inside of or near Dune, my FPS will drop down to a really pathetic 1 FPS and the gameplay there will seem like a slideshow instead of a smooth gameplay experience! In other words, everytime I'm in or near Dune, the extremely low FPS in that area renders the game unplayable! And the funny thing about it is that when I'm in the part of Dune (the separate worldspace part where the battle takes place at) my FPS is at a much more normal 25-30 FPS there! So what gives? And in comparison, in Coronith's Bazzarr area I'l get about 10-12 FPS on average, and about the same 10-12 FPS in the open city part of Orcrest! I don't know why Dune has very low FPS! So can anyone please verify whether the textures for Iliana's Dune city has used some kind of High-Res textures that only high-end PCs can handle?

Please note I'm also using Oblivion Stutter Remover and have it's .ini settings at

Spoiler

Master = {
_comment = You can turn on or off each distinct feature from here.
bManageFPS = 1
bHookCriticalSections = 1
bHookHashtables = 1
bReplaceHeap = 1
bLogToConsole = 0
bFix64Hertz = 1
bFlushLog = 1
iSchedulingResolution = 1
iMainHookPoint = 1
}
FPS_Management = {
_comment = Basic FPS stuff, switches to slow-motion on low FPS; in the past this has occaisonally produced bugs like the NPCs-dropping-dead issue; the issues are believed to be fixed but if you suspect you are having related problems you can try disabling bAllowSlowMotion which is the main suspect for any problems relating to FPS management
bAllowSlowMotion = 0
MaximumFPS = 30
MinimumFPS = 20
iSmoothFrames = 0
iSmoothMode = 0
iSleepExtra = 2
bFPSConsoleSPAM = 0
iSchedulingParanoia = 1
iHardMaxFrametime = 200
}
CriticalSections = {
_comment = CS stuff helps both Oblivion and Fallout significantly
_comment = most of the benefit comes from the Renderer+0x180 suppression (see overrides below)
_comment = modes: 1=vanilla, 2=fair, 3=stuttering, 5=suppressed, 6=prioritize-main-thread, 7=deprioritize-main-thread
bEnableProfiling = 0
bEnableMessages = 1
bUseOverrides = 1
iDefaultMode = 2
iDefaultSpin = 1000
iStutterLevel = 4
}
Heap = {
_comment = Heap replacement can produce MAJOR improvements in performance on Oblivion, only moderate improvements on Fallout
_comment = It crashes instantly on Fallout, is moderately buggy on Oblivion
_comment = Algorithms: 1=FastMM4 (requires external dll), 2=Microsoft (slow on XP), 3=SimpleHeap1, 5=ThreadHeap2
iHeapAlgorithm = 5
bEnableProfiling = 0
iHeapSize = 450
bEnableMessages = 0
}
Hashtables = {
_comment = This stuff is still new.
_comment = The dynamic resizing option may still be buggy.
bAllowDynamicResizing = 0
bUseOverrides = 0
bEnableProfiling = 0
bEnableMessages = 1
iHashtableResizeScale1 = 2
iHashtableResizeScale2 = 4
iHashtableResizeDelay = 20
}
OverrideList = {
CriticalSection = {
CallerAddress = 0x701748
comment = Renderer+0x180, recommendation=suppress (mode 5)
Mode = 5
}
CriticalSection = {
ObjectAddress = 0xB32B80
comment = MemoryHeap CS, recommendation=stutter (mode 3)
Mode = 3
Spin = 1500
}
CriticalSection = {
CallerAddress = 0x70172A
comment = Renderer+0x80, recommendation=???
}
CriticalSection = {
ObjectAddress = 0xB3FA00
comment = Unknown4, recommendation=???
}
}

And just in case anyone needs my load order, here it is!

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Windfall.esm02  Toaster Says Share v3.esm03  DLCShiveringIsles.esp04  Catsuit.esp05  Collectible T-Shirts V2.1.esp06  Crossbows of Cyrodiil.esp07  pale_rider's Hats.esp08  XSPipeMod.esp  [Version 1.2]09  HGEC_BodyGlove.esp0A  DukeCity.esp0B  NewSheothManor.esp0C  Nascosto Isles 3.esp0D  Windfall.esp0E  Knights.esp0F  The Lost Spires.esp10  Tamriel.esp11  ElsweyrAnequina.esp12  TWMP_Valenwood_Elsweyr.esp13  TWMP_Summerset.esp14  TWMP_Hammerfell.esp15  TWMP_HighRock.esp16  TWMP_Skyrim.esp17  TWMP_Morrowind.esp18  TWMP_BlackMarsh.esp19  MidasSpells.esp1A  Seph's new animations.esp1B  actors_in_charge.esp1C  ActorsInMadness.esp1D  ActorsInEmotions.esp1E  77_Umpa_Animation.esp1F  shinyEmotions.esp20  _Ren_BeautyPack_onlyhairs.esp21  TSS Custom Companion  Template.esp22  Toaster Says Share Faction Recruitment.esp23  Bashed Patch, 0.esp24  Streamline 2.1.esp25  Paris Hilton.esp26  Lindsay Lohan.esp27  Jessica Biel.esp28  Black Beard Races.esp29  Black Goatee Races.esp2A  Black Mustache Races.esp2B  Black Viking Beard Races.esp2C  Black Wizard Beard Races.esp2D  Blonde Beard Races.esp2E  Blonde Goatee Races.esp2F  Blonde Mustache Races.esp30  Blonde Viking Beard Races.esp31  Blonde Wizard Beard Races.esp32  Brown Beard Races.esp33  Brown Goatee Races.esp34  Brown Mustache Races.esp35  Brown Viking Beard Races.esp36  Brown Wizard Beard Races.esp37  Gray Beard Races.esp38  Gray Goatee Races.esp39  Gray Mustache Races.esp3A  Gray Viking Beard Races.esp3B  Gray Wizard Beard Races.esp3C  Red Beard Races.esp3D  Red Goatee Races.esp3E  Red Mustache Races.esp3F  Red Viking Beard Races.esp40  Red Wizard Beard Races.esp41  BKMask.esp42  Dremora Mod 1.00.esp43  AAAEmptyRoom.esp44  Guitar ENG.esp45  Guitar ITA.esp46  77_Umpa_Disco.esp47  TWMP_Tamriel_Ingame_ Map.esp

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:38 am

These are open cities with lots of clutter and NPC's and creatures with running AI packages, so it lags pretty bad there. Nothing to do with Onra's heightmaps.

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:27 pm

These are open cities with lots of clutter and NPC's and creatures with running AI packages, so it lags pretty bad there.

Then is there someone out there that could make closed city versions of those cities in Iliana's mod? It's just a total FPS killer to even have opened cities unless the player has a really suped up supercomputer made for serious hardcoe gaming! I just don't know why everyone has to even make their cities open cities with high-res/high poly textures and clutter it to death!

Nothing to do with Onra's heightmaps.

Thank god!

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:23 am

I don't think there's a high chance of someone wanting to make these closed cities, most of all because it's Illiana's work. You could just take the easy route: open up the mod in the Construction Set and delete most of the clutter and other eyecandy stuff. That should give a performance boost.

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:46 am

I would also vote for closed versions of the cities alt least as a seperate option..my system is not bad but even I have bad FPS rates when coming close to the cities...

btw I was planning to do this for my own game anyway...

cheers

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:43 pm

I don't think there's a high chance of someone wanting to make these closed cities, most of all because it's Illiana's work. You could just take the easy route: open up the mod in the Construction Set and delete most of the clutter and other eyecandy stuff. That should give a performance boost.

Yes, if only I knew how to even use the construction set to take things out of the game! I'll have to only hope that someone recreates Iliana's Elsweyr mod and make a version of her popular mod for those with not so powerful PCs!!!

I just wish Iliana would have warned people with older, lower and Mid level PCs about the severe FPS hits they would truely take (similar to how RAEVWD and Better Cities did with those mods by warning people with older PCs!) when playing thru certain parts of her mod!

Now I'm starting to think that it's no wonder lots of people were hating her mod! They were probably people with PCs like mines or lower end!

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:59 am

I just wish Iliana would have warned people with older, lower and Mid level PCs about the severe FPS hits they would truely take (similar to how RAEVWD and Better Cities did with those mods by warning people with older PCs!) when playing thru certain parts of her mod!

Now I'm starting to think that it's no wonder lots of people were hating her mod! They were probably people with PCs like mines or lower end!

Sure, she could have done that. But really want my opinion? Those people should be permanently banned period. Illiana deserves a whole lot better than the crap she had to put up with. She did an amazing job on Elsweyr and most of the haters probably don't have any clue how much unpayed work and time is involved in such a big project. Don't become one of them...

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:56 am

It's an amazing amount of work, just like allot of other mods around here.

Iliana is a really nice person and helped me when I was doing a patch for Elswyer, very suportive!. I am sure if someone with a good rep as a modder wanted to do closed city version and contacted her about it, it would be allowed.
Then it have to be maintained too. Iliana is on hiatus but she did pop in to release the Juni update, even if it is not easily available now if I understand it correctly.
This time she had to leave because Elswyer could not get much attention from her, time was a factor and maybe, even if she didn't mention it, it might turned into a chore and not fun any more.

She is worth all praise and not harsh treatment. Remember she will probably not forbid someone to make closed cites if they just ask her!

Cheers!

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:56 pm

Sure, she could have done that. But really want my opinion? Those people should be permanently banned period. Illiana deserves a whole lot better than the crap she had to put up with. She did an amazing job on Elsweyr and most of the haters probably don't have any clue how much unpayed work and time is involved in such a big project. Don't become one of them...

Beleive me, I won't!

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:23 am

I would also vote for closed versions of the cities alt least as a seperate option..my system is not bad but even I have bad FPS rates when coming close to the cities...

btw I was planning to do this for my own game anyway...

cheers

If you ever do a closed cities version, will you PM me with a link to it?

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:43 am

I've can get around Dune without any lag (well, actually, it drops from 30fps to 20fps, but I don't view that as an issue) on a reasonably old computer with a graphics card that was a budget release when it was brought out anyway. Which only interests me because I get the same 10-12 frames per second performance in Corinthe and Orcrest. Are you sure there might not another factor involved?

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:37 am

I don't use this any longer because of performance issues but this is no criticism of the author anymore than my not using QTP3 is a criticism of that mods author. It's an outstanding piece of work and I'll never forget riding across the desert on an elephant.

edit. typo

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:54 am

I may have found out what is causing the severe FPS drop in Dune! Too many NPCs, large cats and camels in the Bazaar area of Dune. I go to use the killall cheat on the console command to kill everything in a given area and guess what?, my FPS goes back to normal! So someone above was right about NPC scrips that can cause FPS lag when too many of them NPCs and creatures are bunched or crowded together! (And I was thinking it was caused by how so pretty Dune looked!!)

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:35 pm

I've been wondering why I can't so much as approach Dune after the last update (CTD without fail every time). I noticed some bad texture paths or creatures without the right models defined and tried to fix it in the cs, hoping that would resolve, but no luck. I guess I'll try removing some havoked objects next. I already took out some of the kitties.

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:54 am

I've been wondering why I can't so much as approach Dune after the last update (CTD without fail every time). I noticed some bad texture paths or creatures without the right models defined and tried to fix it in the cs, hoping that would resolve, but no luck. I guess I'll try removing some havoked objects next. I already took out some of the kitties.

let's hope Iliana will come back and continiue her amazing work soon...there is another very strange bug caused by the Elsweyr mod..a flying tower over Valenwood...seems to be a lod error (object disappears when you get closer) allthough there is no object placed at this location...looks like a Dune tower...

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:03 am

I've been wondering why I can't so much as approach Dune after the last update (CTD without fail every time). I noticed some bad texture paths or creatures without the right models defined and tried to fix it in the cs, hoping that would resolve, but no luck. I guess I'll try removing some havoked objects next. I already took out some of the kitties

Have you tried reinstalling Elsweyr? It's possible that those crashes could be caused by missing mesh or texture files.
That said, I get a crash at a particular spot near dune (that's a relative term, but dunes the closest city around to the spot) and a crash at a particular in the forests below Corinthe. However, my crash shield is able to stop these crashes, so I haven't really bothered to find out or solve the cause.

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:44 am

Yes, re-downloadting and installing over what I had was the first thing I tried, and that didn't make a difference.

I did however just go in and delete a lot of havoked objects and now, although it stutters like mad, I am finally able to enter Dune! The stuttering was bad enough that I eventually crashed (probably because I tried casting a fancy spell using some fancy graphic effects), but that was the problem! Funny, I've never been able to consistently replicate a CTD that occurred just because of system demand, but there you have it.

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:24 pm

Too many NPCs anywhere in the game causes issues, whether the city is open or not. I'm sure people are sick to death of hearing me say it, but a city being open is not in and of itself a cause of frame rate problems. Stuffing it with too many clutter items, too many NPCs, and NPCs with too many AI packs will cripple just about anyone including high end PC users.

That said, making closed versions of the cities is going to induce the same kinds of problems with general compatibility that opening the Cyrodiil cities causes. Which will result in people needing to make patches to get around them. So the most logical approach to solving it is to find ways to cut down on AI scheduling and cut down on miscellaneous clutter.

One thing I have confirmed in Orcrest is the large palm trees. The models used for those have extremely high polygon counts on them and there are several in the open section of the city. Getting two or more on screen at once causes problems. Those models really need someone savvy with Blender to come along and do some trimming to reduce the problem. Once those are fixed, Orcrest would be perfectly fine.

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:05 am

Too many NPCs anywhere in the game causes issues, whether the city is open or not. I'm sure people are sick to death of hearing me say it, but a city being open is not in and of itself a cause of frame rate problems. Stuffing it with too many clutter items, too many NPCs, and NPCs with too many AI packs will cripple just about anyone including high end PC users.

That said, making closed versions of the cities is going to induce the same kinds of problems with general compatibility that opening the Cyrodiil cities causes. Which will result in people needing to make patches to get around them. So the most logical approach to solving it is to find ways to cut down on AI scheduling and cut down on miscellaneous clutter.

One thing I have confirmed in Orcrest is the large palm trees. The models used for those have extremely high polygon counts on them and there are several in the open section of the city. Getting two or more on screen at once causes problems. Those models really need someone savvy with Blender to come along and do some trimming to reduce the problem. Once those are fixed, Orcrest would be perfectly fine.

This is true. I had alright frame rates in open cities, nothing different then when i had closed cities. Try using bashed patch options to lower amount of active actors at a time, theres an option there some where IIRC

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:52 pm

Ah, you are correct Arthmoor. I never really thought "why" only about the question "can". So what is it with this radianAI? It is coded into the .exe and yet takes such an incredible toll on the CPU. And it can't just be not checking the "no low level processing" box since having more NPC on screen is worse than not seeing anyone even with lots of schedules being run?

Amorilia mentioned that in the 2.1.6 release he might have optimization for character meshes too, so then that will help a little for low end systems.

I have also seen that the UOP adds "no low level processing" to some NPC's but sometimes it is not part of the bash patch; the reason is of course something else affected them afterwards, mod e.g. I and Sylar0712 had a discussion thinking about testing having all NPC tagged that way just too see how much processing power it took to run it; but we didn't know of any simple way to just set it on all. As usual I went wondering if the multi-tool TES4Edit had a search and replace command for such a thing?
If it made a huge difference I might just go through all my mods and see what characters could be set to "no low level processing" :ahhh:

And thanks to whoever (EDIT:It was AngryYoungDumnerSyndrome) it was than mentioned that there were some file path problems, now I can start looking for some things that I was wondering about.

Cheers!

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:48 am

Yes, if only I knew how to even use the construction set to take things out of the game! I'll have to only hope that someone recreates Iliana's Elsweyr mod and make a version of her popular mod for those with not so powerful PCs!!!
I just wish Iliana would have warned people with older, lower and Mid level PCs about the severe FPS hits they would truely take (similar to how RAEVWD and Better Cities did with those mods by warning people with older PCs!) when playing thru certain parts of her mod!
Now I'm starting to think that it's no wonder lots of people were hating her mod! They were probably people with PCs like mines or lower end!

Well, no. I don't have any real fps problems in those cities and I apparently have a much worse computer than you do.

This is what you said your computer is--

Dell Dimension E521
Processor: AMD Anthlon 64x2 Dula Core Processor 3600+(2 CPUs) at 1.9GHz
Memory: 3,070MB (3GB) RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 9400 GT

And mine by comparison is--

Packard Bell Computer Intel
Pentium 4 CPU 3.06GHz
3.06 GHz, 1.00GB of RAM
NVIDA GeForce 6200 LE

So, I think you should really look at your load order and fix that. Having a gazillion animation extenders installed, for example, is probably not going to help performance in areas with a lot of npcs.

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:56 pm

I and Sylar0712 had a discussion thinking about testing having all NPC tagged that way just too see how much processing power it took to run it; but we didn't know of any simple way to just set it on all.

It would be an extraordinarily bad idea to do this because then no NPCs anywhere would ever update their packages unless you personally visited every cell they were in. The reason the UOP only did it to some is because those particular NPCs never leave the cells they're in. As soon as you have one that needs to go through a load door, you can't turn off their low level processing.

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:41 am

Sure, she could have done that. But really want my opinion? Those people should be permanently banned period. Illiana deserves a whole lot better than the crap she had to put up with. She did an amazing job on Elsweyr and most of the haters probably don't have any clue how much unpayed work and time is involved in such a big project. Don't become one of them...

THIS is the reason it is set to hide on Nexus? Because idiots [censored] in the comments about low performance? This is unbelievable... Why has no one reported them and have them at least temp banned?

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:45 am

It would be an extraordinarily bad idea to do this because then no NPCs anywhere would ever update their packages unless you personally visited every cell they were in. The reason the UOP only did it to some is because those particular NPCs never leave the cells they're in. As soon as you have one that needs to go through a load door, you can't turn off their low level processing.

I knew I should have stated it was for testing only a bit harder

Yes indeed I was about to point this out in my posting but decided not too. Also I decided not to reword it as it read now as if to set everthing to full processing; but you understood correctly that I meant mainly to turn off. But it would also be interesting from a testing point of view to see the effect if every character has full processing.

And that's why I would need to go through every mod to see what the AI packages does and if the character is involved in a quest that takes him out of his cell.

But I don't see this will do as big as impact as I would wish, although it is good practise to set "no low level processing" on NPC's if you are doing a mod if they don't need to be processed all the time.

Is my english really that bad? It seems I get misunderstood more times than a galloping Acrocanthosaurus :hehe:

» Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:14 am

Well, no. I don't have any real fps problems in those cities and I apparently have a much worse computer than you do.

This is what you said your computer is--

Dell Dimension E521
Processor: AMD Anthlon 64x2 Dula Core Processor 3600+(2 CPUs) at 1.9GHz
Memory: 3,070MB (3GB) RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 9400 GT

And mine by comparison is--

Packard Bell Computer Intel
Pentium 4 CPU 3.06GHz
3.06 GHz, 1.00GB of RAM
NVIDA GeForce 6200 LE

So, I think you should really look at your load order and fix that. Having a gazillion animation extenders installed, for example, is probably not going to help performance in areas with a lot of npcs.

Did not know about that one! Well, here's my load order so far! I'm not sure what would be the best load order to help with performance!

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Windfall.esm02  Toaster Says Share v3.esm03  DLCShiveringIsles.esp04  Catsuit.esp05  Collectible T-Shirts V2.1.esp06  Crossbows of Cyrodiil.esp07  pale_rider's Hats.esp08  XSPipeMod.esp  [Version 1.2]09  HGEC_BodyGlove.esp0A  DukeCity.esp0B  NewSheothManor.esp0C  Nascosto Isles 3.esp0D  Windfall.esp0E  Knights.esp0F  The Lost Spires.esp10  Tamriel.esp11  ElsweyrAnequina.esp12  TWMP_Valenwood_Elsweyr.esp13  TWMP_Summerset.esp14  TWMP_Hammerfell.esp15  TWMP_HighRock.esp16  TWMP_Skyrim.esp17  TWMP_Morrowind.esp18  TWMP_BlackMarsh.esp19  MidasSpells.esp1A  Seph's new animations.esp1B  actors_in_charge.esp1C  ActorsInMadness.esp1D  ActorsInEmotions.esp1E  77_Umpa_Animation.esp1F  shinyEmotions.esp20  _Ren_BeautyPack_onlyhairs.esp21  TSS Custom Companion  Template.esp22  Toaster Says Share Faction Recruitment.esp23  Bashed Patch, 0.esp24  Streamline 2.1.esp25  Paris Hilton.esp26  Lindsay Lohan.esp27  Jessica Biel.esp28  Black Beard Races.esp29  Black Goatee Races.esp2A  Black Mustache Races.esp2B  Black Viking Beard Races.esp2C  Black Wizard Beard Races.esp2D  Blonde Beard Races.esp2E  Blonde Goatee Races.esp2F  Blonde Mustache Races.esp30  Blonde Viking Beard Races.esp31  Blonde Wizard Beard Races.esp32  Brown Beard Races.esp33  Brown Goatee Races.esp34  Brown Mustache Races.esp35  Brown Viking Beard Races.esp36  Brown Wizard Beard Races.esp37  Gray Beard Races.esp38  Gray Goatee Races.esp39  Gray Mustache Races.esp3A  Gray Viking Beard Races.esp3B  Gray Wizard Beard Races.esp3C  Red Beard Races.esp3D  Red Goatee Races.esp3E  Red Mustache Races.esp3F  Red Viking Beard Races.esp40  Red Wizard Beard Races.esp41  BKMask.esp42  Dremora Mod 1.00.esp43  AAAEmptyRoom.esp44  Guitar ENG.esp45  Guitar ITA.esp46  77_Umpa_Disco.esp47  TWMP_Tamriel_Ingame_ Map.esp