The kicker is those two quest-essential objects that need to be moved. They are persistent references, which can cause havoc when handled incorrectly. Enable parents won't work for them because their enable state is scripted and they are already parented to other objects anyways, duplication won't work because they are pre-set to be initially disabled (this only works for objects that start enabled), simply moving them won't work because anyone who's already visited the location will have the objects fixed in whatever place they were when they first entered the area, and deletion is a very bad idea, as it can cause game instability. The shrink method won't work either because of the sound effects that are placed (can't get rid of those that way). And they can't be built around because doing so would wreck the area completely.

The presence of scripted enable states and parented enable states really complicates things. I'm not seeing any other options at this point other than full plugin replacement (definitely not ideal) or a title-update to the mod that moves those two objects someplace more friendly.

Not the Sancre Tor marker, the doomstone/runestone that is inside the walls.

Great time to discover my disc drive aint workin'...

Although, better now than for Skyrim release, but stiiiill... :brokencomputer:

Is it any consolation to know that Skyrim probably uses steam like New Vegas, meaning you can download and play the game without a disk drive.

Just in case you don't get yours fixed.

But if you do get it fixed before 11.11.11 you should try this mod out, quality work all the way.

Gosh !
That looks uber complicated.
And me thinking having town in their own worldspace was simpler than in world one :rolleyes:

Do you mean RST plugin replacement or a BetterCities - RST.esp replacement (like the one for Blood&Mud) plugin ?

Good thing you don't have to deal with it then eh?

The Better Cities issues will be addressed, the process is already in motion. Mod conflicts are inevitable, we are all modding the same game board independently of one another, so I will do what can be done reasonably to resolve these situations as they arise. I apologize for any inconvenience RST players experience running these two mods together in the meantime. The sections most conflicting are two temp quest events in RST one for the Wind Warrior quest the other for the Horse Seller leg of the Spies Like Us quest (both close to the beginning), for a temporary solution you might disable Better Cities until you are past those two points. The Bug tracker will be updated with more information on this patch as it comes available. Thank you for your understanding. :foodndrink:

I fully understand, Rider. I'm not trying to pressure you any, just explaining the situation.

I can't recommend disabling Better Cities, though, as it contains a rather large courier quest that would get reset if you did so.

I'm just gonna wait. I still have a ways to go before I finish the MQ anyway.

As I understand it, disabling just the BC ESPs would be fine. The courier quest is contained in their master file. Also, since the conflict is in the IC, it stands to reason all one would need to deactivate temporarily is the IC module.

Talk to TNO about this, it shouldn't be hard for him to add a compatibility option for that. Might already have a generic one, in fact. (He's big on exclude lists.)

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=37701 Use alongside TES4LODGen for proper distant visuals of Sancre Tor after restoration. Only one plugin is needed. For pre-RST visuals, no toggler plugin is required, just generate and forget.

Please don't load that plugin into the game, though. I am quite certain some things that weren't supposed to be deleted were deleted, so it will break things if loaded in the game. I let this slide because the plugin is for LOD generation use only. Do not use it for anything beyond that purpose.

How about a PM asking if I'm cool with you mucking in my house huh, before you go "fixing" things up and distributing? Seriously, you didn't even mention it to me to even ask what I thought. Just because it's dependent on my mod doesn't mean you're free to take liberties, the permissions on RST clearly say, ask first, for anything at this point. Take it down and we can revisit this like gentlemen. :dry:

Ugh.... I'll take it down now. :facepalm:

I tread toes with that one.

EDIT: File has gone bye-bye for now. No toe-treading intended here.

UPDATE:

Version RC1.0.1 has now released on TES Alliance and TES Nexus. You may overwrite your .esps and resume gameplay at your leisure. Please note ONLY the .esp has been updated. There is no reason to download the other files again for this version. This is a list of bugs fixed in this latest update:

• Rowan Infinite Escort Loop Entering Temple of Light -Fixed in RC1.0.1
  
  
• Blades Youth Leaving the Temple of Light -Fixed in RC1.0.1
  
  
• Missing Road Record Interrupts Cloud Ruler to Sancre Tor Escort (effecting non UOP Users) -Fixed in RC1.0.1
  
  
• Enabled Disabled Horse Cavalry Horse North of Chorrol -Fixed in RC1.0.1
  
  
• Chrysamere One vs Two Handed Confusion -Fixed in RC1.0.1

I sincerely apologize for any damper I'm sure was put on your RST fun by this odd crop of bugs, but all have been squashed. In testing this evening none of these bugs required a restart, so you should be good to go. Thanks for your patience and for playing. :thumbsup:

Note: If you updated to RC1.0.1 and Rowan gets stuck in a dialogue loop in the trenches, redownload please. I think I uploaded the wrong copy in my haste.

Okay, now that Rider has reclaimed Sancre Tor and I have reclaimed what's left of my dignity, I have re-uploaded the previously mentioned file with Rider's endorsemant http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=37701

Once again, sorry about that.

We're good TK. :foodndrink:

In other news...

Update:
Looks like the fixes for the Blade youths are hit or miss at best in version 1.0.1 under further gameplay, they aren't sufficient to get the player where they need to be in the training hall 100% of the time. So, it's back to the drawing board on this very tricky bug. The issues with Rowan appeared sometime between 10/13 and 10/16 after testers had cleared that section so only public playing revealed it. Had I known about it I would have held off release, sorry some of you folks are on hold until its resolved. It's back on the tracker. :brokencomputer: :

If you are a player who doesn't mind consoling, you can console the quest forward just a hair to get around Rowan, for now. Console setstage aaRCMQ02a 25, then speak to the Blademaster on the large training mat in the Hall of Enlightenment, Blademaster Sakai. :thumbsup:

A stable fix will be coming.

A persistent object from a mod can be easily relocated by changing the Form ID. The game will see it as a new object and so will place it in the new location.



So you're dealing with all reported Better Cities conflicts? No need for us to do anything to BC itself?



If you enable an ESP to run TES4LODGen, then disable the ESP for gameplay, you should run TES4LODGen again before play, as the Distant LOD is load order-dependent. This will of course negate whatever the ESP was supposed to do. So it should be enabled in-game to be used properly.



So no compatibility patches to be made without asking permission?

The nature of the LOD tweaks prohibits it being active while playing. When placed at the end of the load order it is immune to the problem - so long as it isn't trying to ADD any LOD objects, only edit existing ones in some fashion.

Ah I see, yes if it's just editing records from another ESP and not actually adding new ones, then exactly so.

It's out! :celebration: :celebrate: :icecream:

Congratulations on getting it out there. :foodndrink: :bowdown:

If people want to vote this as file of the month on Nexus I'd recommend waiting until November. Because it'll never beat http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=40545 which got 171 votes so far.

Congratulations on the release! I'm sorry if I missed this somewhere, but can you provide a more detailed explanation of why the conflict with Thievery in the Imperial City is not worth patching? The brief blurb on TES Alliance suggests two locations are in the same place, but I don't recall TITIC adding anything that can't be moved fairly easily - an entrance to a store in the market district, the entrance to a cave in the West Weald, etc. Sorry if the answer would be obvious from playing the mod; I haven't had the chance to begin yet.

Can you explain exactly what RST is doing to map markers, and maybe even provide formId for any new map markers, especially if they could benefit from one of Map Marker Overhaul's new icon types (stable, castle, house, farm, church, harbour, etc.)?

I planned to make an update to MMO the next week anyway, so any compatibility tweaks for RST would be good to get in.


Yes, this too. If there are any magical stones, ayleid ruins or temples that are moved/disabled, I would very much like if users of RST+MMO could set debug to 1 in MMO's ini and point the mouse at the relevant markers in the world map. That will print out their formIds to the console, and by posting those (preferably in the MMO thread), I can disable/move the markers accordingly if RST is running.

I already do this for a number of mods, and plan to play with RST myself, but getting it right ASAP is of course a bonus.

You are misquoting me and seem to be drawing an ugly conclusion, sir, if I'm wrong in that I apologize. When I said "The Better Cities issues will be addressed, the process is already in motion." that meant it didn't require 3rd party involvement, that individuals involved in RST's development were already examining the reported Better Cities conflicts, to decide where we could give on our end, before then approaching the Better Cities team with our remaining needs and working together on an amicable solution for both projects. That is the process I was referring too. -_-




Of course not. Given the scope of RST, people need to be in contact with me before making and distributing patches as I'm in the best position to help them understand how RST works where; I'd also like to be able to provide links to made patches for players. Equally, I have been and/or will be in contact with the authors of any mods I need patches for to extend that same courtesy as they are far better equipped to patch their own mods than I am. That the Better Cities team has not heard from me is due to one reason, the current bugs being tracked in RST require my full attention at the moment and any patch considerations are not on the immediate table.

If Better Cities has no desire for compatibility with RST, I will simply not address it then and players can choose between them. For my part I was hoping we could work together.



There were two similar location issues reported, the one off the top of my head is the IC store entrance, I placed an entrance in the exact same location so someone has to move. In this case, I can't move because I have a second location on the flip side dependent on the first, and both are quest related. Being unwilling to give, I just didn't think it fair to ask anyone else to move especially not knowing the full nature of their location yet, but if that's an easy move for TITIC it's worth another look. :yes:

Thas is exactly what I was thinking.

I will get the info on the Runestone/Doomstone for you as soon as I can TNO

@ AngryYoung Dunmer

Thievery has the merchant in the same location where RST places a quest location -- on the other side, Thievery places a recessed statue where RST places another important location. As far as I can tell those are the only conflicts, but it's been a really long time since I have played all the way through Thievery.