An Orc mage would be a good place to start.

I've read thousands of posts on here. That's why I'm testing. I'd still like a focused discussion, though, instead of having to wade through all of the unrelated stuff. Good advice most of the time, though. Thanks.


I think Todd Howard said something about a Chuck Norris DLC, but I could be wrong. I'm not trying to play the worst way possible, just pick the worst combination of attributes and perks. I'm giving the game an honest go using what I pick, though. Otherwise it's not a fair test.


See above.


More than one suggestion for this build. What do other people think? Should I bury some perks in Destruction or is the negative hype overrated? It might be weaker than it should be, but I find it hard to believe it's worse than some other choices. Would I be better off sinking all of my perks in Alteration or Restoration instead? I dunno. I haven't really played too much with the magic yet.


And yet people complain that Enchanting/Alchemy/Smithing is such a powerful combination that it ruins the game. Is it? I don't know. I've only got one perk in each.


That's good to know. I didn't know that. Maybe I should invest points in Magicka when I level up.


Popular choices, it seems. If I make it through alive, I'm holding you to that salute.


Already picked an Imperial, unfortunately. Powers seemed the least combat-worthy. My character could be described as a dishonest Imperial craftsman/trader who likes to steal other people's stuff and sell it as legit merchandise, although right now she's just robbing graves. I think she's Agarmir's great, great granddaughter or something. Not above poisoning the competition.

Hard to come up with a backstory for someone who crafts and steals. Makes shoddy armor and snake oil, perhaps? Why on earth did she get picked to be the Dragon born? :shrug: The gods are really scraping the bottom of the barrel, it seems.

- Put all perk points into Smithing, Alchemy and Enchanting
- Never make armour, create potions or enchant weapons.

play imperial noble - speech/restoration/ilusion build and put every point into magika

Put your hand up if you read other posts before responding. The goal is not to make a stupid character who doesn't use his skills, but to pick poor perks and try to use them well. The point is to see if having a bad perk build breaks the game. Don't feel bad, half the people replying to this thread have no idea what it's about.


This is more like it. Thank you. I am playing an Imperial and putting points into Speech. Also: Pickpocket, Lockpicking, Smithing, Alchemy, Enchantment. No combat, armor perks. The trick seems to be using these secondary skills often enough to unlock the higher perks.

Level 8 now and just cleared another dungeon without any problems.

I think destruction is a bad skill to perk for this experiment, because it's mostly viable until lvl 35 or 40.

Many people think illusion is overpowered, so that's a bad idea, too.

IMO, pickpocket, lock picking and speech are clear choices. Destruction might be the next "best", but only for its long term payoff. The last choice is tough, and it's more about a lack of synergy with the first four choices. Maybe restoration or alchemy, which might allow you to survive, but require a lot of maintenance effort.

The big perks to avoid are weapons, conjuration, smithing and enchant. You could maybe take one from weapons, smithing, or enchant, but any two of those would be too easy.

Edit: I forgot pickpocket, another clear winner. Oops. Are you playing master? My bet is that any build is viable on adept, and mostly viable on expert (except some bosses). Also, certain artifacts like the sanguine rose are game changers. SR by itself could get you through the majority of mid-level fights.

wrong chuck norris need no armor his beard is the hardest material in multiverse also he roundhouse kicks not punches he was forbidden by the gods from punching due to them feeling it when he did

It isn't hard.


Imperial

Max out Speech, Lock pick, Pick Pocket, Illusion, Alteration, Block

Make sure to become a Vampire

Don't increase HP above 100




As for me, I just got a high level Breton character without using any perks so I can use whatever build I want to test out without making multiple characters for a 300ma, 400hp, 300sta type of build I'm going for.

Illusion can actually be very powerful and allow this build to make the game super easy even on Master.

hmm good idea 4 build i would say alchemy ive tried it not really useful for combat oriented speech not really that usefull just really makes u more money lockpicking is just timesaver restoration does have high point if u fight undead use the healing hands kills quickly so there is good benifts to that u said u were playing smart with build after those block because the skills just supplement what the shield does instead of actually adding better stuff pickpocket as no real big use considering all quest items can be stolen garunteed but after those ud really dont have choice other sneak or 2h if combined with the others

Double post.

Yes, playing on Master. Currently level 10. So far, I've put perks into Lockpicking (x2), Pickpocket, Speech, Smithing, Alchemy, Enchanting (x2), and Illusion. I would have put more into Pickpocket and Speech instead of Illusion and Enchanting but I haven't used the skills enough to unlock new perks and I don't want to carry perks over to later levels. The main quest sort of forces you to spread out non-combat skill perks because there's little but combat and the occasional lock to pick. Now that I'm done with High Hrothgar and most of the Ivarstead quests I've gone back to Whiterun and spent some time selling loot, smithing, alchemy, enchantment, and picking locks. Have not been successful picking pockets yet.

Smithing has been the most useful skill so far, followed by Alchemy. Smithing provides a tangible benefit; Alchemy a small one. The enchantments I've gotten from Enchanting have been trivial. (1% less magicka to cast Conjuration!) Lockpicking perks really do seem pretty useless. Haven't been able to pickpocket yet, probably because I haven't put any perks into Sneak (though my Sneak score is decent). The trading benefit from Speech is pretty insignificant as well. With Lydia I can basically handle any ordinary foe, though with 100 Health and no weapon/armor perks I have to avoid getting hit, so I spend most of my time sniping, dodging, and using Destruction. Boss battles are a little tricky since they're all 1 hit kills on me. If I manage to get Oakflesh up before I get hit I sometimes survive the first hit (not to be underrated, since it effectively doubles my lifespan) but then I'm out of magicka (since I only have 100 points in it).


I'm going to hunt down Chuck Norris and use his beard to make my next set of armor.


I don't have any experience with vampires in this game. Why is becoming one bad?


I have Fury, but since the people I charm end up attacking me half the time anyway it's use is pretty unreliable.


I have a feeling Beth has four basic builds in mind when it comes to handling enemies: Hulk (straight combat with combat/defensive perks); Harry Potter (straight magic); Batman (stealth/assassination/poison); and Iron Man (craft the best weapons and armor possible or craft cheap stuff and sell it to buy the stuff, enchant it, and buff up on potions before wading into battle). You're obviously not going into battle as a straight thief.

So far, this has been a challenging build on Master. The biggest liability is the 100 Health. I think if I put points there things would be easier. Putting all my points into Stamina doesn't do much since I can't really go toe to toe with enemies anyways. Lets me carry a little more loot, 'bout all.

I'm not sure how well this would run, but try this...

- Make a summoner. Primaries in Conjuration with side use of Alteration.
- Max out Speech and Enchanting, avoid Smithing because "your mage is not a brutish worker".
- Wear nothing but cloth. Never take a companion (because he is a lone wolf mage).
- Let's make it interesting and make this character a Khajiit. Name him/her whatever you'd like.
- Also, get a horse and make it your closest ally, give it a name and try to keep it alive at all costs. (lets say its' relative to the character's story)
- Use a dagger and a staff for your weapons, if you do get any. Enchant the dagger with magicka absorb (or magicka damage) and use a "Staff of Zombies".

There, that's the most terrible build I can think of. I haven't exactly leveled conjuration, but I'm assuming it's more limited than destruction in use.
(Once you use it, that's about it until your creation dies.)

Thoughts?

Hmmm...

Speech / Alteration / Lock Picking / Pick Pocketing / Alchemy

Good luck getting anything done.

the worst character build would be one where u put perks into skill trees u wun plan on using like; make a character and put perks into 2-handed and block when ur gonna use 1-handed weapons only, focusing ALL ur perks on stealth when ur going mage, etc etc. ;D i guarantee, this build is not only bad, its also flat out stupid

No conditions on weapons and armor. I'll use the best I can, I just won't put perks into them. It's not really a role-play test, just a build test. Pretend you picked these perks because you really wanted them but still did your best to survive on Master. Is it possible, putting all of your perks into Speech, Pickpocket, Lockpicking, etc., to survive the 'boss' fights. I've had a couple tough goes, but so far I'm managing. Level 11 now. Just put another perk in Speech.


Do you consider Alteration the worst magic skill? Or only in conjunction with the other skills mentioned?


One of the conditions on the test is that I do the best I can with the worst perks, so this won't work. If I pick I perk, I have to try to use it to the best of my ability to make it worthwhile. The test is to see if it's possible to build an unusable character by choosing the wrong combination of perks or if the 'gimp and reroll' complaint is just a myth. I naturally expect some builds to be better than others, but want to know if even a terrible build can still be playable and 'fun'.

Well, my test character is level 21 now, 100 Health, 100 Magicka, 300 Stamina. No combat perks. No armor perks. No archery, stealth, restoration, or destruction perks. Master difficulty.

I have one perk in most other skills, with a couple in Speech, Lockpicking, Pickpocketing, Enchanting, and Alchemy. I'd spend more on Speech (I have 2), but it levels too slowly and I don't want to spend all of my time walking loot back and forth between dungeons and towns (as I don't fast travel). I have a couple perks in Enchanting because it is ridiculously easy to level and I have to put perks somewhere. I've scrupulously avoided spamming any skill. I've only used Smithing to make minor upgrades to weapons and armor and only created about four pieces as 'busy-work' to learn my trade. The best magic items I have are a glass bow that I enchanted with +10 flame damage and a steel mace with +10 frost damage. My enchanted steel armor gives me a 1% reduction to Conjuration spells, but is otherwise ordinary steel.

Having a 100 Magicka means I can only cast Novice spells. If I drink a fortify magicka potion I can cast some Apprentice spells. Needless to say, these spells are not very effective against 20th level opponents.

Here's how a typical fight goes: get in a stealth shot with a poison arrow, conjure a familiar to create a distraction, perform any necessary buffs with potions, do my best to avoid getting killed (typically in 1 hit) while Lydia fights. From a safe distance I fire arrows (poisoned against tough opponents) or circle around with Flame or Spark. Depending on the situation, a Fury spell, Conjure Familiar, or Raise Zombie can create a minor distraction. I use shouts in pretty much every combat. Unrelenting Force is a great way to get out of trouble. I've killed 5 dragons now, I think.

Needless to say, I die a lot, but it's much easier than I thought it would be, and I'm having a really good time. I'm curious to see if it gets any more challenging, or if the level of challenge will start to drop off.

One thing I noticed: if you play a thief, you make a lot more gold. It's also very easy to get alchemical ingredients, potions, and enchanted items. There's all kinds of useful stuff just lying around that I wouldn't touch with a non-thief character. That also means that it's easier to level things like Enchantment, Alchemy, and Smithing, since there are more materials to be had. That's fortunate for me, but I avoid abusing it and have very strict rules about how much crafting I can do in a day.

I read a post about companions which said that they are locked at the level at which you first meet them. So Lydia is fighting beside you as whatever level she was when you got her. That high level weapons and armor tend to be more effective than perks was the consensus on that thread. So a character with access to good loot at a low level (your follower) will still wreck sh@t against higher level, lesser equipped foes. so, I guess that even with bad perks, if you've got the equipment, you can still hold your own. I've got another question about this build, though. You're trying to recreate someone totally screwing up perk and stat distribution, right? Who's going to put all their points into stamina? Even the dumbest player, I'd think, would invest in health at least a little bit. Just a thought. Something else to try would be to swap weapon styles randomly.

You will die so easy lol. I doubt you'll make it past the 1 dragon.


Put all points into Stamina - Take Lock Picking - Speech - Destruction - alteration

How exactly are you defeating dragons, they should 1-hit you.

If you wanna make a really bad build, just play as normal but don't spend any perks. Might be interesting to see how difficult the game is when you have to rely only on skills which hardly scale.

I don't believe he killed 5 dragons with a 100 HP. That's impossible.

Level up with no perks at all?

The OP said play would be normal and strategic. Your problem is with strategy... not with perks.

To OP... you can power level speach by getting ten cheap items and buy/selling them over and over until you run out of gold. I don't do this type of thing, but it's obvious that it could be done.

Followers do appear to be statically leveled. Lydia is definitely getting owned more often, even with health potions. Part of the problem is that I refuse to use looted armor (shields and weapons are fine, though) so the armor we have is not as good as it could be. I'm trying to find some steel plate (she has boots and gloves) but it's fairly hard to come by. As far as someone putting all of their points into stamina goes, I can only argue that someone may want to play this way. Maybe they want to play a character who just isn't very sturdy and not very good at magic. It's not invalid from a RP perspective, though it might seem a little eccentric from a gameplay perspective. And having 300 stamina hasn't been all bad. For one it allows me to lug around more loot (potions, rings, an extra weapon, etc.) but it also comes in really handy when you're sprinting away from dragon breath. If you miss Athletics, invest in Stamina and sprint a lot. It's the same thing.


I've already slain several. All of my points are in Stamina. I've taken every Lickpicking, Speech, and Pickpocket perk the game will let me. And Destruction is too useful at low levels: even one perk would allow me to output 2x the amount of damage for Novice spells. I have dual-wielding Alteration because it seemed pretty useless. And it is: I don't have enough mana to cast any dual-wield magic, so it's been a wasted perk, so far. The Novice Alteration perk allows me to use Oakflesh from time to time, which sometimes means I survive the first blow.


The point is not to make the game as hard as possible, but to see if it becomes completely unplayable if you make terrible perk and attribute choices at level up. Of course, the hitch is that someone making terrible choices will also probably not play well, so they won't be able to take advantage of the resources they do have available as well as a seasoned player. I'm mostly just interested to see how far out of balance you can swing the new leveling mechanics.


Well, there are the pictures:

http://www.truancyfactory.com/images/misc/elsbetDragonkills.jpg
http://www.truancyfactory.com/images/misc/elsbetCombat.jpg
http://www.truancyfactory.com/images/misc/elsbetMagic.jpg
http://www.truancyfactory.com/images/misc/elsbetStealth.jpg

Hm. Maybe I've killed more than 5.

The trick with dragons is avoiding the breath. I use sprint a lot, and Whirlwind can help too. They have a very wide area of attack, so dodging isn't always possible, but you can't beat them without dodging. A lot. I tend to run around, jump down behind boulders, run around the corner of buildings, etc., and then take shots at them when they're stationary. It isn't easy, but it's possible to beat them. I also use other creatures whenever possible. I used a giant against one of them. The giant lost, but weakened the dragon. It worked out well, since the giant had a bounty on him. Also, if you use resistance potions and heal while they're blasting you you can often survive a direct attack. That gives you enough time to heal with potions and restore your magicka for the next blast.

See above.


One of the other conditions I've imposed on myself is no skill spamming. I haven't spammed any skill. All of the development has been very natural from a RP perspective. You can see that in the Smithing, which is fairly low because I don't use it unless I have to. Enchanting is so easy to level that it's almost silly. Every time I find a magic item I don't need (and I find more of them as a thief) I disenchant it to get the enchantment. You pretty much gain a level every time you learn a new enchantment.

Edit: This is also the first time I've ever played a character that needed to use scrolls. Normally they just sit there, forgotten. When you have to be strategic about every battle, you'd be surprised what comes in handy.