witch is why i posted a few pages back the idea that instead of way points have an area a large circle where you know the cave or ruin you are looking for is inside of so those who hate the red triangles and those who like them are both happy and dont get me wrong i didn't like them particularly ether but they can be explained in a way that is not magical or a gps

I wouldn't mind that, have a quest-giving npc say "You have a map? Let me show you where it was, I think it was East of such and such ruins", or maybe they draw a circle around the general area for you. Just not every quest, since there are times when, obviously, no one could have marked the right area for you. (Nirnroot, anyone?)

Then what about locations where you are not told about, but GPS compass just redirects you?
Even so, I think that that idea of yours actually wouldn't work.
If you move sideways, compass itself wouldn't change since you are not turning yourself and that line you drew would automatically start to show in other direction.
The point is, you failed.


Or simply making it optional.
I think that's one thing they should seriously think about making it optional.
Even Fable 3 made bread crumb trail optional.

@op they're called quest markers.

Don't use them if you don't like them.

There are those of us who find them helpful.

Have a nice day!

And if there was an option to turn the bloody thing off instead of having it there under our noses all the time, then maybe it wouldn't be a problem.
Ever thought about that, brain?

^

In case you missed it. But one of the reasons I tend to get passionate about fast travel and map markers is because TES games are SO worth taking the time to explore. And it's a little sad that some people won't get to enjoy it all.

Alright end of the preaching... I recall using both of those Oblivion-added tools a few times when I didn't have the proper time to play .

do you think im pulling this idea out of my (censored) no this is basically how you navigate a ship
and yes if you move a couple of feet to the left or right your line is now off but its a simple matter of relining up you string

They needed the red triangle because your target could MOVE and that made it nearly impossible to find.

In skyrim they already have said sometimes your quest giver doesnt give you detailed directions so you wind up knowing roughly where to go but not exactly.

I think the overall consensus is that it should be an option, so I guess there isnt really much more to discuss.

I highly doubt we will ever see them completely removed, because too many people find them helpful....obviously including the developers at gamesas. So your only hope to play without them is an option to turn them off, or to have them removed in the hardcoe mode.

I dont know about you guys, but quest markers NEVER stopped me from experiencing the entire world TES had to offer. That magical gps that tells you when there is a nearby shrine that hasnt been discovered, is amazingly convenient, and I never once stopped to say "Hey! Why thats not very realistic!!". It helped me make sure that I explored every location there was to offer. Unrealistic? Who gives a hoot. You want real, step outside your front door.

As for the quest markers....what do you do when you get to a location via NPC directions, and dont know what to do? When you cant find the person you need to talk to? When you simply cannot continue in a quest due to not knowing how or where to proceed? I find that far more obnoxious than a magic quest arrow.

I completely understand where you are all coming from, but there are a lot worse things than a video game instructing you on where to go for missions.

Some targets did move, yes, but it does not make the waypoint any more necessary. There is a quest log...

What happens when you get to the place you were instructed to go to, and there is nothing there? Or the NPC you are looking for wandered off somewhere and is no where to be found? What if your quest log says to go to a town and speak to someone, and when you get there the person is nowhere to be found?

Do you really think they would have a quest log in game tell you the wrong place to go if they put it in?

"I was informed that my mark enjoys going to the local tavern on Middas during the evening. On Turdas he usually goes to the archery range....etc etc"

Really not that difficult.

Edit- But I will state it again, I really don't mind the markers being in, and I am fully aware it's very very likely going to be similar in Skyrim (fast travel in, map markers similar). I'm just explaining another way to go about it that I'd prefer. Opinions are what makes these forums... well, forums.

But what happens when you go to both of those locations, but.... your 'mark' isnt there? You wait and search and wait and search but you just cant locate the target?

I honestly think that's the only reason they added them (map markers) in the first place, because there are so many things that could go wrong. Maybe the NPC you were supposed to stalk tried to steal some bread and another NPC decided to murder them, maybe they got stuck in a wall somewhere, or fell off a bridge in Skingrad like our favorite orc. I DO see the purpose of them, I'm just saying in an ideal setting, journal entries and more vague directions would be preferred by me personally. I hope they learned from some of their mistakes and put them into action when making Skyrim, in regards to the AI, for reasons such as this.

but you do find it... you just have to be patient. The directions in the journal wouldn't be off like that. you might have to go to the tavern and just wait, the "mark" wouldn't be there 24/7, but if they tell you he goes to the tavern, the mark is gonna go to the tavern.

I could just as easily say "what if the quest marker is off?" What if it brings you to the wrong place and..."You wait and search and wait and search but you just cant locate the target?".

Just leave the marker in the map, with no hud representation and everyone is happy. Simple yet effective solution. People who don't want it use the directions they are given, just looking the map to help find the right direction to start in. People who want to use it only need to bring up the map to find exactly where they need to go. Everyone's happy then.

If Fable II and III can have an optional "breadcrumb" trail, Skyrim should most definitely have optional quest markers.

Ah quest markers, I wondered what the heck you were talking about.

Couldn't agree more, there should at least be an option to disble them. I know you can turn the entire HUD off but I'd like to keep some HUD elements like a compass and health and whathaveyou, and I imagine the quest markers would still show up on your map, so a toggle to turn them off or on would be great. But then they'd have to make sure they gave you adequate direction when you got the quest, and that the journal recorded the directions. That's how Arcania (Gothic 4) handled it. You could turn the quest markers off which was awesome, but the journal also gave you directions (albeit fairly vague ones) so you could still find your way. That was about the only thing I liked about that game but it's worth praising it for because it is such an annoying feature of RPGs like Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas ect.

I'd also like an option to turn points of interest off as well.

I still wouldn't like that unless the quest giver said "I'll mark the location on your map." If not then it's still a cheat to my mind. I'd use my map all the time to orient myself so I still wouldn't want to see the marker.

I think the only solution is to have an option in the game preferences to enable or disable quest markers HUD, and quest markers map.

As long as I can answer with "Let me check my backpack ... nope, I don't. Seems I forgot my map at home. No matter, just tell me the directions.", I'm fine with this approach too.

From the map, markers would just show the town/cave/landmark where the target is. Even if the towns are open, the marker will still just be pointing you towards the town you all ready know you're headed to anyway. Once you're to the town, just don't open up the map. With more descriptive quest logs of where to go, you'd all ready know where you're going anyway, a marker would mearly help you find it. And once you're inside, with no marker in the hud you mearly wouldn't open up the map screen in order to not have it guide you to the exact spot. Those who want it, can have it. Those who don't want it, don't have to use it. Everyone wins. Doesn't matter if you think it's cheeting, that's just your opinion. A lot of other people don't share it. Some do, but a lot of other's dont.

They could, but sadly devs have limited time in coding for the game and thus take shortcuts at times. If there is the opportunity to get a quest destination from a compass, then they don't need to make NPC directions clear and precise b/c if they are confusing and not-helpful the player can just pull out the compass to do the quest. Thus environments need not be distinct and conversation need not be as clear, causing sitations where the compass is needed b/c the devs. got lazy.

That said I'm not against the idea entirely, I just don't want to see the devs get lazy...and I'm also confident they will, because they're human and just about anyone will get lazy where they can when there are 10,000 other things demanding attention that don't allow players a quick work around.

I don't remember which quest exactly but there was a quest in oblivion ( think i was near chorrol ) that u were told to find some place n were just told that it was somewhere to the south... u then had to find someone who knew the area n they gave u directions (marked it on ur map) the quest marker then pointed to it...
I think a system like this would be the best solution 2 keep but sides happy because i like to move between quests so begin able to quickly n easily (lookin at u quest journal from morrowind) find where i was ment to be headin was great...
otherwise how would u record directions? wat if i want 2 leav the quest alone for a while do i have to come back n go ''sry i don't remember the directions u gave me 2 months ago can u tell me again'' or if they become a quest enter wat happens if u wat to find it from a different startin position??
all that said i would actually like a switch because ''real men don't ask for directions they just drive around i circles till we find the place''......

I agree. Nuff said.

I enjoy both methods: using the quest compass and following directions. Following directions definitely feels more rewarding, but can get tedious after a while. I don't care which method they use. I'll enjoy the game for what it is, and not be upset about it not being more like Morrowind/Oblivion.