The only problem I have with this argument is that the suggestion to fix it is talking to an NPC to get directions. Marking a place or area on my map is just as magical and far fetched as the waypoints to begin with. Some NPC giving me road directions to the place I need to go? Hell no! Marking a section that I can pull up my map and see? I really dont see how that changes anything, even if the marker is not permanately on your compass. Either way it ruins what nerds alike call immersion.

I personally never had any issues straying from the beaten path for a while and exploring in OB or MW. It was easy for me to forget about my current quest and wander thru the wilderness pillaging dungeons. When I wanted, I could simply look at my compass an know what direction I needed to head in. Pulling up a map or running to the nearest npc is not a solution, its just removing one problem and creating another.

Often times, I will start walking toward a waypoint on my compass, making sure to stop at every dungeon, shrine, cave, etc along the way. So in these situations, the magic compass actually helps exploration while at the same time allowing me to stay on track with my current quest.

I think if the NPC tells you exactly where your supposed to go like "Go to so-so's house" it should show a maker, but if they only gave you a general area like "they want that way!" there shouldn't be a maker, just a journal entity explaining what they said.

Even with the little marker in Oblivion and Fallout, I didn't really use it. It was always there, and I used it to get my barrings when ever I got myself lost, but usually I just walked around till I found what I want. If npc's explain where they want us to go, or are happy enough to walk half way there with us and then point us the rest of the way, it would make my wandering around all the more direct and less lost. Its not that big of deal to me though.

If the hud is invisible till we take damage, I would say its a fair guess to think that only the map will have a marker to show us where we're going which makes it better for those who don't want to use a maker, but if you are someone who wants to use it then you'll just have to pull out the map to find it. Sounds like a good middle ground to me.

MGSKFMDFKRGHPPLCVXPPEEGEGHDGKODVN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WILL PEOPLE STOP WITH THAT NONSENSE ABOUT TES BEING SP GAME SO IT'S OK TO HAVE CRAP IN IT!?!?!?!?
Buddha Christ von Thor!
Yes!
Yes you can cheat in a SP game!!!
Not that Oblivion fast travel or pointer are cheating (just a sissy way of playing), but you can cheat in a SP game.
Why not being able to have a nice game feature like Morrowind where we get proper directions so we don't need that bloody pointer so people who like an actual adventure can go into one and those who don't can turn on that pointer on the compass and let it lead them by their hand?
Also, fast travel also has to be remade totally, but that's not material for this thread.

I love way points(red dead redemption :celebration: ) as long as I have access to something that tells me where an NPC is and where the entrance of the place I have to go is(free side gate :facepalm: ) be it quest directions or "GPS" then I'am a happy guy. I just find what what others call " the thrill of getting lost" poor game design. There were lots of quests in Morrowind the epic "gem" people love referring to,that told you what city a person was in but never marked the city or told you how to find it ergo bad game design. It's my thought that quest markers ensure you find the city and person,so I also vote optional since I DO NEED A [censored] GPS OK. Everyone has an opinion and thats just mine,I am not going to follow around and npc just so I know where to find him after I do his quest at least admit that is a pain in the ass.

Exactly.

It said quest icons not necessarily guest markers.

Option to turn it off would be better than nothing..

If they make it I want it to be less helpful. Basically if someone says "Oh the thieves went up north, I saw them around you should look for them around there." and it turns out they may be very far away from the red marker or in one of 5 caves or a fort nearby. Basically make it so the quest could be ANYWHERE and you have to look for it.

Optional is the way to go. I REALLY hope the red triangles can go away.

See now, it did. But is there any indication they're two different things?
Sure hope so.

Don't want no in-your-face frakin' red Quest mark'ons!

Options > Quest Marker

Full - Same as oblivion
Advanced- Will point you to the room/area were quest point is
Basic- Will Mark the Entrance to dungeon/City were quest point is
Off - Completely off

I would use advanced as I like to know the general area of where im supposed to be but not like it when I am show the exact location. I feel that having no marker whatsoever would make most quests take much longer than needed and make things easily missable.

Oh if only we can turn off every [censored] marker on the compass (quest pointer and locations of interest), it would make Skyrim sooooooo much better.
I remember my adventures in Morrowind and every time I found location I was looking for it would put a http://files.sharenator.com/creepy_smile_440_wat_the_duff_n_cool_stuff-s440x330-119726-580.jpg on my face. ^_^

It really doesn't sound like these games are for you. On of the key features of the ES series IS the wandering and exploration. If you don't want to spend time wandering, you should think about another game to play.

While I agree with you, its unfair to brush him off and tell him to play a different game. Like he said, sometimes people don't have time to wander. Wandering can be really fun, but for some people who work on farms and have work to do from dawn till dusk when school isn't going on, or have other jobs or are in sports, they don't have all the time in the world. Getting lost when you don't want to be lost can be a pain. I love that feeling of wandering around had happening upon unique places, but there are times where I just want to get where I'm going.

Moving the marker to the map and the map only would make it so those who don't want to see it dont' have to, and those who want it only have to pull up a map to figure out where they're going. I think that would be the best way to handle this.

I didn't mind the triangles. I played Morrowind for several years before Oblivion came out, and started playing Oblivion on the highest difficulty setting. I like my gaming challenging, but not frustrating. I've never seen games like Skyrim as something that you require some sort of perceptive gifts to play. If I play the game for 30+ hours without a break (coughcough), I don't want to have to decipher some vague directions to some location. In Oblivion I could just talk to someone, go where they told me to, and BS my way through what I was supposed to do in a quest (which was after I'd gone through my first 1000+ hours of play in which immersion was my focus and during which I would have agreed with you).

I've spent hours in Morrowind looking around for X landmark to complete Y quest. I'm simply not good at following directions/observing things in video games. I hope that there is either an ultra-clear method of discerning locations of named landmarks or some other for of precise navigation (even in the form of the silly red arrow). To me it makes sense that someone would 'mark it on your map.' Having it on your compass just keeps you from having to flip back to your map all of the time to make sure you're headed the right direction/haven't overshot your mark.

what i would like is when your in a certain distance of the quest location, the red triangle will appear in the hud

That would make sense to me. Kinda like in OB where the symbols would appear for specific locations at a certain distance, but the red arrow instead of all of the actual places being clearly pointed out in an obnoxious fashion.

First of all, sorry about the strong reaction.
It was thing of a moment. >.>
Second, well, you can cheat in SP game, but it's true that you are MOSTLY cheating yourself actually.

for akatosh's sake :brokencomputer: its not a magical gps it could be explained with logic if you have a map and some one puts a pin wear you are supposed to go you can place your compass on your current location then drawing a straight line from the center of your comas to your desired location would show you exactly the direction you want to go

But then you get chased a mile off course by an ogre, and after running for dear life, you don't have any idea where you are, but you still know the exact direction to you're destination? can that be explained by logic?

I think the main point of this thread was that it'd be nice to not constantly have your hand held throughout the game. I mean a 5 year old couldn't get lost in Cyrodiil, that's a little sad.

But in my post and a few posts before that, I explained that to each their own. Plus there are easy ways around it like making a quest without a waypoint your active one, or modding it out.

yes it can be explained with logic so long as you know where you are on your map so if lost use a land mark you could use the same idea to tell you wear you are going

yeah, I second the no triangles idea, not only was it annoying, but it ruined immersion, because instead of telling you where to find a certain quest location, they'd just say "go to X dungeon and kill Y creature", then point you in the direction of the arrow. I loved it in Morrowind when they'd give you complex directions to each locations (except for that one jerk who gave the wrong directions, you would not believe how long I spend looking for Milk cavern), even when you did get lost, it was realistic, you could always backtrack, or consult your map to get back to the right path, and no matter where you ended up, there was always something new to see (I remember I first found Caldera in MW because i got lost on my way to Balmora from Ald'ruhn, silly me thought to make a shortcut cross-country). Let's hope the exploration and immersion makes a comeback for skyrim.