The Dunmer in TES:O aren't part of the Dominion and even so politically wise the Dunmer great house and council system is still more stable and advanced then any political system the humans had.


Which is a major point because nowadays Nords treat mages as social pariahs unless they are the court mages another thing is that the Nords of the 4th era show no qualities of being like the 500 companions, despite what you think mages are a very powerful source especially going after an enemy that practices magic as a cultural way of life, magic isn't "for the weak" or "for the elves" it's a very powerful and useful thing for armies. The Nords nowadays don't have mages in their army and then don't have a crazy powerful enchanter that helped them enchant a ton of the gear as previously stated by Hevnoraak another thing is that by far a frozen wasteland where life was extremely harsh provided more hardened soldiers then what skyrim has.

What does that have to do with anything? AFAIK the dunmer have never been part of the dominion and they still enslaved Argonians.

Listen, dude. the Forsworn are chockfull of mages and they don't do them any good against the Nords. Maybe Nords learn how to fight mages? Maybe they're all participants of the atronarch? I don't know how they do it, but what I do know is that the Forsworn's mages don't make a dent in the Nords and when the Nords went south to fight the dominion, the dominion lost.

1. The nords never fought the Dominion in any war, the Dominion that Tiber conquered was conquered by the Brass-golem Numidium and not by any of Tiber's armies and even if Tiber used his armies it wouldn't be the nords that were 100% responsible for it, it would be every race in his armies.
2. The Forsworn suffer from lack of good equipment and
3. That isn't really a good excuse to prove "Magic wouldn't be doing anything to help the nords"

I don't get your first point or where it came from.

Forsworn equipment is no worse than Stormcloak gear, is it?

The third point is fruitless because, even at Madanach's own words, he doesn't have control of the Forsworn outside of Markarth and it'll take years to get it back.

And finally all I'm saying is that mages don't mean the Nords automatically lose.

I'm not saying they will automatically lose what I'm saying is that they are nothing like the 500 companions and another thing is the Forsworn are fighting a guerrilla war first they attack the caravans, then they attack anyone who enters or leaves the reach and finally they take the reach guerrilla wars aren't about instantly going to target A and then take it with a large force, it's scattering out troops and launching surprise attacks on supply caravans and anyone they deem an enemy.

You still aren't providing any proof of a difference between the Nords of today and the 500. But that comes to no surprise, I guess.

Statistically, Forsworn Gear has higher base stats. Not sure how it affects lore.

As for the forsworn, Guerrilla Warfare is meant only to try to wear an enemy down. To take the reach they will need to be organized into a centralized army, not scattered around.

My main source is that they don't have a powerful sorcerer/enchanter and a large amount of mages in their armies but go ahead, prove me wrong that the nords nowadays are exactly like the 500 companions, go on you want sources proving they aren't and I want sources proving they are.

Didn't the 500 have blessed gear or something? I'll have to go check it out.

I didn't say they were exactly the same. I said they lacked mages. Sort of. Every jarl has a court mage.

one court mage per major Jarl that as far as we know aren't all that powerful doesn't equal to a large force of powerful mages and having a powerful enchanter.

So in your opinion, the 500 couldn't have won without enchanted gear and mages. How does that make the 500 different from Nords today, though? In previous threads you said they weren't "super warriors".

and I still don't think they are "super warriors" since they have no evidence of being super warriors, we have evidence that they are strong yes but not as powerful as some people make them out as and yes I honestly believe that without mages and enchanters to fight a civilization of magic users and enchanters the 500 companions could have not won.

Yes. He'll be looking for allies and will want to establish his cred as an able High King. It works at all levels - across tamriel and within skyrim.

Just a quick question: Do you consider the Redguards to be "super warriors"?

I consider them stronger then the nords and I believe that since they've been independent and non-stop being pooling their resources into the war for longer then the nords and currently they are more united then the nords are even after one side of the CW wins the nords are still somewhat divided among the people whereas for once both the Crown and Forbear political factions of the redguards are working together instead of debating and fighting each other, but I don't consider them super warriors.

Redguards weren't the strong arm of the empire.

/thread.

Dunno if I agree with that. Consider: it was a primarily Nord army that utterly annihilated the Thalmor in the reconquest of the imperial city. The Ra Gada, OTOH, had enormous difficulty overcoming the Thalmor invasion of Hammerfell. Also: Nords have The Voice. When you think about it, not even the Orsimer (who I like at this point) can claim to be as accomplished at war as the Nords.

That is just a term used, seeing as Hammerfell and skyrim never fought against each other in a war we don't actually know which side is stronger and as I've stated before the redguards are more united then the nords as well as having more resources, troops and probably a stronger naval force then the Nords.

That is interesting, because the last time they fought, towards the end of the 3rd century of the 3rd Era(some 240 years ago, so this was not at some Nord height of power), the armies if Skyrim destroyed the armies of both Hammerfell and High Rock, in the War of the Bend'r-mahk. I am not saying this means the Nords are automatically stronger, but it shows that they are of comparable strength at least.

Edit: UESP page, with citations to look up the infor: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:War_of_the_Bend%27r-mahk#The_War_of_the_Bend.27r-mahk

I'd actually say they are more divided politically considering the whol Crown/Forebear thing, and the fact it was only around 240 years ago that Hammerfell was divided up into petty kingdoms.

Thank ye, sir. I can never remember book names, so I just don't bring books up because I end up looking a fool when I can't find the link.

Actually, that's not correct. The Ra Gada have a long history of extremely divisive internal politics. Also, most of their territory is desert. Finally, they have no naval traditions.

The Redguard queen to Cephorus once mentioned to Potema in the Wolf queen book that while Hammerfell is techincally a part of the Empire, the Redguard don't consider themselves subjects. I'm sure with that mentality they didn't really serve the Empire as the Nords did. I have a feeling that might even be the reason why the Empire left then so easily after the Great War

They had a master enchanter. Master doesn't even do him justice. They also weren't dumb brutes afraid of magical potential. They spoke in draconic, and followed tradition and honor.


All of which the Nords of today are lacking.