This is actually true, many of the location names from Morrowind are directly from the Babylonian language I believe

Threads like this always become so ridiculous. Somebody will try to make a comparison between a TES race and a real world race, and somebody else will, for some reason, interpret "Imperials are influenced by Roman culture" as "Imperials are Romans", and baw about it. Races in TES do have real world counterparts.

And that my friend, is the very reason why I love these threads. Debates, when good and civil, bring plenty of viewpoints and ideas out of the woodwork.

Counterpart is the wrong word, Inspiration, yes, but counterpart implies there is one and only one influence. How are you going to tell me that the Orcish counterpart is Mongolian? I've seen a Mongol before, he isn't green and big. How are you going to tell me Imperials are Romans? I know for a fact that Romans were never enslaved for thousands of years only to revolt out with a rebellion, and then end up ruling their captors empires. How are you gonna tell me Bosmer are South American tribes, when not only is their druidism largely Celtic inspired, but many cultures around the world are cannibalistic? Just because aesthetics are similar doesn't make them counterparts

And that my friend, is the very reason why I love these threads. Debates, when good and civil, bring plenty of viewpoints and ideas out of the woodwork.

The fact that the Dwemer where first truly introduced in Morrowind, with their Babylonian/Mesopotamian beards(just look at any statues and friezes of their gods) kinda helps the case too.

Exactly... The Elder Scrolls, contrary to popular belief, has one of the richest platforms for lore in the modern world of fantasy as we know it... The races, some of them, may take references from cultures that we know in our own world... Though, for the most part, they are completely unique... I'm sick of people trying to connect the dots between the Elder Scrolls and the real world... Apparently, imagination isn't allowed to have free-range.... :facepalm:

Or we "connect the dots" just for fun. :celebrate:

That's how most creationist myths/religions were made. If there is something that can be directly explained, how would you make it seem plausible? that's what ES does, takes the formula from many great cultures, and makes it their own (Norse mythology, Lorkhan being Loki, polytheism from ancient Rome being the 9)

Yes, the lore, in some regards, derives from the cultures that we've come to know and understand. But, explain the Falmer, the Ayleids, the Khajiit, etc... I'm just saying, the Elder Scrolls doesn't get the credit that it deserves when it comes to lore :shakehead:....

It does get its credit from the lore. Debates like this wouldn't pop up every once in awhile if Elder Scroll's lore was bland and unoriginal. I want to be clear that most of the discussions about this are almost pure speculation. To us, it's fun trying to unravel some of the aspects of the Elder Scrolls and try to find it's inspiration.

No. The Elder Scrolls, for "the most part" is inspired by real world history. Some aspects of it are unique. WoW is more unique than TES, and that is not a good thing.

Dwarves who use steam power are pretty unique. Even if they have Nord names and weapons, they also have flintlocks, trains, which vikings did not, and are 4 feet tall, which vikings were not.

But there are 100 series which use that type of dwarf, so it seems not unique. But compared to taking from history, it is totally original.



Lore is nothing. Here's some lore. There once was a race called Bja. They lived in a country that was filled with fiery mountains. They rode on multilegged, fur covered flying animals. Their god was called Pthank, and he needed jernu berries as a sacrifice.

Now, here's some gameplay. Bja use martini henri rifles, wear red "lobstertail" coats, leather boots, and like to colonize the countries of people they think are inferior, such as the Nitungs.

That's how ES creates unique races. If you hadn't noticed, the Bja are the British circa 1700-1890.

Now, if you said they wore lobster tail coats, but used wooden clubs, and were actually fighting against and invading force, that would be truly unique. Yes they still have the one item of British clothing, but their predominate culture and way of life is no where like that of the British.

How do you figure? I'm not being "heated", I'm genuinely interested in the debate :foodndrink:... Though, the Dwemer are quite unique, in my opinion...

They are. I think they're more unique than WoW's. Aside form living underground, being technically adept, and having a strained relationship with other elves, the Dwemer are the most unique of the dwarves...especially since they're actually elves.

They are. They derive partly from cultures, I'm not going to deny that, but the whole idea of Dwarves being tall and elven is an idea I've yet to see in another fictional world.

EDIT: Due to my slow posting skill, I was ninja'd. Basically, what Y'ffre said.
We should move this to the Lore section. I'd think the posts would be better educated.

I edited my above post as an example. I'm really not trying to be a jerk (Im sure I'm failing) but these are facts.



Except that they use steam, (and the only explosives on Nirn) like so many other dwarves, and have caverns which often have jewels and precious metal. There was even a Dwarf in the game MACE (N64 and arcade) who made a giant golem suit to conquer the world. Trufax) I like the Dwemer too. They are unique among Dwarves in that they don't look like short vikings, but they do look like Babylonians, and not some never imagined before culture.

*His name was Gar Gudrunson, he was an unlockable character. Here is a tiny tiny picture: http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/4856/397944-gar_gudrunson_icon.jpg

*http://www.fightersgeneration.com/np3/char/mace/warmech.jpg And yes, the Numidium was bigger, made of all metal and not barrels, and had the heart of a god. So Bethesda is better at developing the unique ideas other people have. They did not invent a dwarf Gundam/Voltron idea.

That's not the whole of Dwemer culture. Like most mer, they believed they used to be gods and wanted to become gods again. To do this, they created the Numidium, which would (IIRC) return them to the beginning of the universe, before Anu or Padomay did anything (the concept of IS and IS NOT, respectively). Then they all got bound to it as it's golden skin. They also refused to worship either the Aedra or the Daedra, believing that neither were worth their time.

Even though they possibly destroyed/transformed/enlightened their entire race with the powers of a dead god? I agree though come to think of it. In terms of the Elder Scrolls Universe, they're unique, but not in the face of other dwarves. Come to think of it, the Dark Dwarves of Warhammer are very Babylonian and use magic as a tool.

Oh the hair splitting.. Reminds me of the WoW forums.. :happy: Very interesting read none the less though.

And the lore is great. But cheap. It's very well written, but doesn't change the fact that the Dwarves look Babylonian, and have many many parallels with other dwarves.

I've never seen any fantasy game that was anywhere near 50% unique, including ES. But they are better at being not unique than most. That's as much as I can say without giving myself a lobotomy and ignoring everything I've ever read or seen about history or game or movies.

And I was supposed to be drunk with friends half an hour ago WHY AM I STILL HERE.

Some posts are coming off as a bit melodramatic. For the love of dog, we are talking about a game here. Not real world, not the fate of nations... game. If you don't like TES Lore, which is very rich and deep and wide-ranging, regardless of whatever influences it has, that's fine. Other people would actually like to discuss the races in the game, not WoW, etc.

I have deleted posts and if I come back in this thread, I will just shut it down.

Most things look familiar. Hopefully, Skyrim will give Nords something more than them being Norse. Todd has said that in Skyrim, everything will look familiar, but the culture would be different.

Read things like both of the Pocket Guides, the Monomyth, the Varieties of Faith in the Empire, ect.

Also, the Dunmer. The fact that they have been compared to just about every culture ever, from Ireland to China, to India to Mexica (the Aztecs) from Israel to Mongolia, ect (I've seen more). shows that the Dunmer are, at least, detailed.

Yes, there are similarities. There is nothing new under the sun. But TES is good at taking things and making them interesting.

People seem to forget why speculation is so common in the Elder Scrolls community in the first place; because the universe is detailed. No one's trying to devalue the lore, story, characters, and so on. In fact, this is testament that Elder Scrolls is one of the most fleshed out universes out there. How unique it is is debatable, but it's richness and diversity in comparison to other settings, is undeniable.

Now, onto the topic at hand: Yes, no [censored] the races were inspired and take influence from various real-world groups. The Imperials look Roman but (lore-wise at least) they have a lot more in common with the Byzantines than classical Rome. Bretons are a mish-mash of Gaul, Briton, and Celtic cultures with maybe a smattering of Italy in their given their former penchant for squabbling city-states. Dunmer borrow heavily from Indian, Mesopotamian, and Mongol cultures, Redguards take cues from bronze age African nations, etc. and so forth. The point is that they've grown beyond their roots and have been given plenty of depth over the years as the lore writers have given them all those little touches that make them unique, stitching them all together into a rich and cosmopolitan world with the most unique lore you'll find in any damn video game. Hell, there are tabletop RPGs that wish they had this much depth. Reducing races to a single stereotype (Nords are Vikings!) at best gives you a rough idea of what each race is like, not the whole picture.