I was wondering why none of the houses were ruled over by a member of that family. As far as I know there is no Redoran nor is there a Telvanni but I know of at least 3 Hlaalus': Eno, Helseth and Relen. I don't know about Indoril or Dres but why would Dren have precedence over a Hlaalu to rule over the house?

That's not how the Houses work. They're not like noble houses with a ruling family, rather they're factions with several noble houses within them. In the House Hlaalu faction there happens to be a Hlaalu noble house, but they're just nobles under that faction name, not a ruling family. It's a little different for each house; in Telvanni the mage-lords are just mage-lords, they don't really head a noble family. Advancement within the faction is also possible to reach the noble level of each house. Evidenced in that you can rise to be of noble rank, and eventually even become leader of the faction.

Perhaps anyone with the right skills can rule, or if they are able to grasp enough power to rise through the ranks.

Actually the strongest enchanter of house telvanni's name was telvanni.

I think all the factions started with a telvanni or redoran or hlaalu but then like when you duel the owner its based on the strongest leader. Tamriel is rulled by the emperer not by the factions so. In RL their was a king who was the noble family but that was the only thing in the country that was rulled by the family only....

In the early days of the Chimer/Dunmer, there were many different smaller political houses, but due to various circumstances the majority of these were either wiped out or banded together to form larger ones. The five most successful houses gobbled up all of the minor ones to produce the situation we have today. I'd imagine that most dunmer family surnames actually were originally minor houses. Nowadays, power tends not to be inherited quite so much.

Depends where you're talking about. None of the cultures that the Dunmer are in any way similar to had kings from noble houses in the same way as feudal countries; this is reflected in the lack of the same in Dunmer culture before the Armistice. However, the Israelis, the Assyrians, and the Gaels had tribal chiefs who were effectively subservient to their councils. In the latter the council could take a leader's power away if they broke their inauguration oaths to act in the interests of their people. Power and land could often be won in duels between champions.

This is how Great Houses work; they have a single leader who is either elected by the council (who may speak for and be elected by the people, like in early Irish kingdoms, or at least by other members of the council) or takes the title in a duel when he has a lot of popular support. He then gives offices, either administrative, political, or military, to members of the council.

There were six (possibly seven if you think the Chimer and Dwemer were of the same culture). It's true that they are the result of ancient alliances. Probably there were actually leading families for each of these factions with the names Dres, Redoran, etc. but over the centuries those lines may have lost prominance or even died off. By the time the game takes place the hereditary structures of these clans are pretty different from what they were originally.

Modern Houses begun by feudal families, no doubt, who controlled vast areas and gathered many vassals and retainers. As Almalexia, the wife to Nerevar Indoril came to dominate House Indoril after his death.

King Helseth is head of Hlaalu, related to former king Llethan through Barenziah. There is a hereditary tradition in the houses, just the player doesn't come into contact with it becuase the player is the player.

Telvanni heritage might come through as some sort of Master-Apprentice system, I don't know.

Hmmmm. That is interesting. Because the Dunmer fight for their highest positions, one can infer that they don't have strong inheritance traditions.

I would imagine they do, what with the whole obsession about ancestors and families. All you can infer is that they don't have a nepotistic tradition of 'my dad had it so it is by right mine forever'.

Perhaps they work like the Sith from Star Wars. When the apprenctive becomes strong enough he kills his master.

Don't know about the Sith, but it certainly sounds like what happens in the Unseen University (Discworld, the first two books).

As an aside, you should play KOTOR 1 and 2 someday. They include a look at the Sith training and philosophy. Basically cutthroat, with apprentices fighting their masters to the death when they feel strong enough to challenge their place in the hierarchy.

NO!!!!! :banghead: With Telvanni, if you want to become their leader you go from Councilor to Councilor to get them to vote for you . If one won't you kill them or convince them before moving on to the next one. B) It is how the Telvanni do things. :clap:

Or in more basic terms, like the Sith if anyone disagrees with you or stand in the way of your ambition you kill them of.

The Telvanni are just amoral and completely subscribe to the philosophy that might makes right. If you take something/steal and don't get caught or survive, you clearly deserve it. If the person really wanted that item, they would have vaporized you and protected it better. If you get into a disagreement with another person, and you kill them, well obviously you were correct. Heck, if you get kicked out, all you really need to do is asked to be let in, and since most don't care or never heard of why you got thrown out, you're let back in as if nothing has happened. Maybe a wagging of the finger at the very worst.

They also just like to be left alone. Don't bother them, they won't bother you.

It's a balance with the Telvanni. They are not completely like the Sith, becuase they do have a House structure, hundreds of wizards live in confined mushroom towers, peacefully, thousands in the larger pod cities on the mainland. Though they do share some similar personality traits with the Sith, the Sith have since become such a pigeonhole of stupid evil, "Machiavellian" is a better word for the Telvanni, I think, and that includes a measure of cunning and wisdom that the Sith don't have.

The Telvanni do obey the rule of their betters, that said, Mouths are only as powerful as their masters are. Peasant Telvanni look to their lord for protection, and the mage lords do protect them and maintain garrisons of guards and wizards. Petty bourgeois Telvanni run businesses and services, and those are systems that need competition, but not bat[censored] crazy competition that "the Sith" embody. Just becuase Telvanni society has a high level of social mobility, doesn't mean it's a cutthroat one, and not comparable to the Sith, becuase the Sith aint got a society cuz they busted it.

Exactly. . That is why I love the Telvanni. Also, this is slightly off topic but I was wondering, where did you get your screen name. did you just make it upor did you get it from BtVS?

Name came from a creature in this game called "Sacrifice." It was the ultimate level creature for the god of death, suffering, and pain. My original avatar was it's head, but since them I've changed my avatar. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with BtVS, nor did I know about it till much later.

Lord Hyamentar also gave a good explanation too. While they are amoral, the more powerful guys seem to tend to also leave each other alone. They don't need to kill a person of higher authority, just to get the spot. One could climb the ranks just for being really good with magic, and having his/her own fort and town, and get a mouth. Plus, I bet most don't even really care if you were promoted or not, they just want to do their research and be left alone.