The only problem with the idea of importing milk is that it wouldn't last the journey. I'm pretty sure there's no refrigeration in Morrowind, and milk barely lasts a couple days out at room temperature.

I think coming up with a local alternative would be better imho, and why even call it milk? Scuttle is the MW equivalent of cheese, but it's not cheese. Maybe Kwama nectar?

Since it seems a topic of debate, I would also leave milk out. Milk as a beverage was probably only served fresh from the source, and I'm guessing this only took place in private residences, whether that was a farm house or a dining hall where servants would bring it in. So, if your focus is taverns and so forth, processed foods such as cheese, yogurt, and butter are more likely. Liquid milk would just not be transported very far from the animal it came from.

But I would definitely add the meat of cliff racers and guars, cliffracers as a game animal and guars as both game and domesticated cattle. Alit flesh would probably be poisonous and kigouti flesh would be very rare, for instance in Africa they will sometimes eat a lion if they kill one when it attacks their cows. But they do not go hunting for them, because they are dangerous predators, rather than a typical food source. You could, however, have something like kigouti spleen as a rare expensive ingredient, like rhino horn or tiger [censored].

I guess I would also focus not so much on the ingredients but how they are combined in certain areas, and what kind of effects that has, as in-game that is how alchemy works. For instance, in Balmora perhaps they serve mudcrab with saltrice, but in Seyda Neen they serve it with marshmerrow. In Aldruhn, they don't even have mudcrabs, so they serve saltrice with scrib. There would be some universal stuff (the cheapest, easiest to grow and transport) some local stuff, some imported stuff (near Imperial settlements, forts, trade hubs)

I would also make some races not able to eat some foods. For instance, perhaps kajhiit can not eat leafier plants (herbs are good) but can eat raw meat with no ill effects. Do they include that in Necessities of Morrowind? Or even just lesser bonuses. Let's say Imperials aren't used to eating scrib jelly, so they only get a small bonus, whereas typical bread is more to their palate, and gives full benefits.

OK, I think I went temporarily insane with the milk topic. (Note to self: stop trying to make it too much like RL.) Since cheese comes from scuttle, I'll hypothesize that oil, butter, yogurt, and lard come from scuttle, also. Lard and oil could also come from guar.

I agree that Alit would probably be disagreeable, so I'll take that off the food list.

I like the idea of Kagouti steaks, roast Kagouti leg, etc., but they should probably be available only in limited areas and should be expensive.

Regarding refrigeration, ancient Romans had ice so I see no reason why Vvardenfell couldn't get ice from Solstheim. I think I'll have cold foods in some of the northern towns that could reasonably be expected to import it.

So I guess that means no milk after all? :shrug:

As for viking's idea, that actually seems kinda nifty. It's like, lore friendly and then some. A cut above normal. Only problem I see with this is that it would mean dozens of similar varieties of dishes to add NOM capability to, and this may slow work on the mod down and that's pretty minor. One of the things I dislike however is the food resistances. Not because it's really a bad idea, but because it could be hard to implement, or conflict quite easily.

Um.... I hesitate to mention this what with the debate over the inclusion of fresh perishables but there IS a plausible work around for that and that is teleportation . Of course it would mean that fresh imports would be highly exclusive items and only available to those " in the know " but if the Imperials are maintaining the quarantine/blockade of Vvardenfell then they also control food supply lines from the mainland . Also , with regards to refrigeration , ice was used as the earliest form of refrigerant so it is conceivable that it could be used here as well . Another point is if the the local fauna is based on a reptilian paradigm then where are kagouti , alit and guar eggs ? Enough ! I'll stop rambling on ! Cheers Debi !

You know people love a game when they're willing to argue about whether a guar is a mammal and debate over where milk comes from.

Maybe the kagouti, guar, and alit are mamtiles or repmals. They give birth to live young who have to fend for themselves immediately. Ooh, rough life here on Vvardenfell.

I'm going to try to keep it simple, so if there's a lot of contention about some particular food, that says to me "don't do it".

LOL ! Sounds like a great idea Debi though I was going to suggest that the main three might very well be monotremes but other than us wacky Aussies , who would know what I meant ? Still , mamtiles or repmals works too ! :foodndrink:
Cheers Debi .

Hmm, wikipedia says "monotremes lack the connective structure (corpus callosum) which allows communication between the right and left brain hemispheres". Could that be why guars are stupid? Of course, if they're monotremes, we are back to the question "Where are the eggs?"

Ah ! I might have a suggestion about that . We have a snake in Australia that doesn't lay eggs but stores them internally so that the young appear to be born live ( Tiger Snake : search for it in Wiki ) . Perhaps the Guar , Alit and Kagouti use a similar method . If not , then scribs have eaten all the eggs and/or the egg laying season hasn't started yet ....? ( Yeah , I'm grasping at straws there ! ) Good notion about Solsthiem as a source of ice . And it has some mammals ..........though I don't see bear milk ice cream being any more than a very strange aberration of taste . See ya !
EDIT :Ya know , we've all been so caught up with milk being an animal by-product that I only just considered that there are plant based milk substitutes : soy and rice milk . Soy is probably a no-go but rice milk could have possibilities as Morrowind already has Saltrice as a plant and alchemic reagent so why not a milk-like drink made from saltrice and say , scuttle ? It won't be perfect but it might provide an alternative to real milk for those outlanders in need of milk in their morning cuppa . Cheers Debi !
Greg

That might actually work. Omg.. did someone finally solve the milk question? I think we need a purist from the lore section.. I am curious now. Is this actually viable or is there something I don't know about the saltrice?

Hey, I like that idea! I use coconut milk and soy milk myself. I think the answer may have been sitting in front of me the entire time! :facepalm:

I think marshmerrow might be a better (or another) alternative, though. From UESP wiki:

"The sweet pulp of marshmerrow reeds is a delectable foodstuff, and when eaten fresh or prepared, it has modest healing properties. Marshmerrow is an important cash crop of the farms and plantations of the Ascadian Isles, but it also grows wild in the Grazelands and on Azura's Coast."

And I'm actually already using something called "marshmerrow cream" on a dessert.

Thanks Greg!

How about Pearls? If memory serves, they're mainly calcium, so they could be crushed up and used in some dishes as a seasoning.


On the subject of milk...why not two kinds? Marshmerrow gives a sweet milk used in deserts and light dishes, while saltrice milk is used in ones that are more savory. Like biscuits and "cold soup".

Calcium carbonate, actually, which I don't think would really taste like much. It'd be like adding a tums to your food. Useful maybe, but probably not delicious =p.

Historically , pearls were dissolved in vinegar and drunk as a "healthy tonic " ( weird , I know . Must have been Telvanni ) . Potentially they could be added as a de-acidifier ( if such a thing can be said to exist ) or as a cure for upset tummy ( do we call it " Telvanni Rumbles " ? )
As to Kefke's suggestion of sweet and savory plant " milks " , I say thee verily forsooth ( I like it ! Certainly resolves a couple of issues . Well thunked ! )

EDITS : Spelling errors ......

Ok, saltrice milk it is. I just put it on my beverage reference list. Here are the four milks I have as Ingredients (not Alchemy):

Marshmerrow milk ... restore health ... detect enchantment
Fermented marshmerrow milk ... fortify health ... drain willpower
Saltrice milk ... restore magicka ... restore fatigue
Fermented saltrice milk ... fortify magicka ... drain strength

Well to follow up on what I said...

First, yeah, pearls are still consumed today in certain forms, but it's more a health thing. But in certain cultures, like China, cooking and medicine traditionally go hand in hand. People, especially in the upper classes, often have believed that rare materials have health benefits. You can even find mineral water with gold dust in it today. So while pearls might not be a common ingredient, you might see some nobles consuming them, and in regions close to kollop beds they might be added to certain foods in the belief that it would improve the health (and thus ability to work) of the locals. (Sort of similar to how lobster, which is considered a delicacy, was once "peasant food" in those areas where they were commonly caught.)


Also, I noticed that Matze is listed as made from saltrice. Given you went with my idea of saltrice and marshmerrow giving different kinds of milk, that gave me a thought. In the real world, different regions, or even makers within a region, often use different ingredients to make very similar alcohol. So I got to thinking that in some places, marshmerrow, or a mixture of marshmerrow and saltrice might be used, though the drink would still be considered a "Matze". Possibly other traditional drinks could have regional variations as well. I imagine some establishments might have a hearty argument over which variation is superior.


Lastly, a new thought. Personally, I would like to see a Morrowind equivalent to absinthe. I'm not entirely sure what would go into it in Morrowind terms, though it seems like it would be another thing the Telvanni would come up with...though I imagine certain Hlaalu developing a taste for it (Crassius in particular comes to mind). I know in real life what goes into it, just not sure on the equivalents. Possibly trama and black anther, but I'm not so sure.

Hmmm. That's an interesting suggestion . Morrowind Absinthe or any liqueur for that matter . There are so many that are alcoholic herbal mixtures ; angostura bitters for example , and grenadine . Could be a whole range of them . Some exclusive to the Telvanni and some introduced by Imperials and , say Bretons ( who might very well be the originators of Morrowind Absinthe ! ) .

Just a thought...

Bread mold is the source of penicillin. How hard would it be to include "Powder of bread mold" as an ingredient with Cure Disease as its effect?

Random brainfart terminated...

Clavis

or even just " moldy bread " having cure disease properties ( as well as some other less savory ones - damage personality , drain fatigue for example ; the first because anyone who sees you eating moldy bread doesn't want to have anything to do with you and the second 'coz of the tummy colly wobbles eating the stuff will give you ! )

Yay! finally the milk issue solved and our early cup with some cereals are possible : D

Then, savoury yogurts and milk-based beverages as milk-shakes are also possible : ) Combined with other ingredients and with some ice, we have cold milk-shakes... yummy ^ ^

In my country, Spain, we have a popular beverage called "horchata" (served cold) similar to soy milk in appearance but not it taste.
In English it's translated as "tiger-nut milk" because it's made from chufa, a tuber also known as "tiger-nut" coming from juncia avellanada (cyperus esculentus) roots (the tubes are attached to roots).
A Vvardenfell version of this specialty would be very nice. Any plant with deep roots should be of use for that, included Bittergreen or Trama.

Another thing missing are more tea specialties. Since tea can be made of many plants, and Morrowind have many : ) It can also be made of flowers or a combination of them. Just throwing the idea

Yeah , I've been thinking about tea's and coffee substitutes also . Fortunately there is an abundance of alternatives to coffee ( never say that to a confirmed coffee lover ! ) in RL so why not some for Morrowind ? Perhaps the Imperials and Bretons have experimented with local plants and come up with an alternative . Maybe comberry seeds roasted and ground . Or roobush fruit/seeds ( they look large enough ) . And we wouldn't need to consider the alchemic properties as roasting would alter them . As for tea , Taddeus includes some teas in NOM . Not the traditional tannin rich brew I am imbibing as I write , but herbal tisanes . Perhaps some more of these but with lesser effects . As for tea itself , it transports relatively easily so it could be something from other lands , trickling into Morrowind and regarded as a delicacy .

Coincidentally, I was just working on my beverage list and came up with the following (as Ingredients, not Alchemy):

Tea (Cha)

Dwe'cha (refreshing) ... Bittergreen leaves ... Restore Intelligence ... Drain Endurance
Gah'cha (warming) .... Stoneflower seeds/roots .... Restore Strength .... Drain Luck
Ju'cha (pleasing) .... Kresh flowers/seeds .... Restore Luck .... Drain Magicka
La'cha (calming) ... Trama Root .... Restore Willpower .... Drain Speed
Mer'cha (brightening) .... Heather flowers/roots .... Restore Personality .... Drain Speed

Like the names of these . Will have to find the Tamriel Codex and sus out the word roots . Might add to your list then , Debi ! Actually , I just did all that ! here's some more :
Fal'cha ( Snow Tea ) .... Holly Berries ... Resist Frost ....Weakness to Fire
Bos'cha ( Forest Tea ) ... Comberry leaves ...Detect Animal .... Drain Strength
Garlas'cha ( Cave Tea ) ... one of the mushrooms or bloat ( Luminous Russula although poisonous , has Night eye as an effect so this could be one for Night eye enhancing ) Night Eye ....Weakness to Poison
Ouanda'cha ( River Tea ) ... ? something that provides swift swim as an effect

Between you two we'll have 10 tea specialties ^ ^
Now we can open a teashop!

I actually have had a tea room in mind for a while for a future mod.