Assume I have a .esp that adds a new item "cooking oil". I want to then create another .esp that adds a recipe "potato chips" which uses as an ingredient "cooking oil" from the other .esp. Is this possible? If so, how do I do this?

I am fairly certain that mod A needs to be an .esm in order for mod B to use any completely new entries it creates. Note that making a mod an .esm has various effects; it fixes some bugs, but also means the mod can't be (easily) removed mid-game (Saves will refuse to load if a master is missing, I believe?)

This is not entirely correct, If you remove Mod A (the .esm) but, not Mod B (the .esp) you'll receive a missing master error and, most likely CTD. Old Saves will still load mid-game if you remove the master and, all related slave plugins.

cev

The game engine/FNVEdit allows .esp's to reference other .esp's as masters, however the GECK won't allow it and will remove any .esp file in a masterlist of an active plugin.

If you want an esp to have another esp as its master, you have to keep the master as an ESM (extension and ESM flag) until done working with the GECK. From there, 1) open both in FNVEdit 2) untick the first (Master.ESM) plugin's ESM flag 3) change Master.ESM to Master.esp in the second (Slave.esp) plugin's masterlist 4) close/save both then 5) change Master.ESM's file extension to .esp. From there your esp should be able to reference the other esp as a master without issue provided Master.esp loads before Slave.esp.

Note: You can keep the ESM flag ticked for Master.esp to ensure it loads before Slave.esp if Slave.esp's ESM flag is unticked since ESM's (false flag or bona fide) will load before any esp.

How do I save something as an .esm in GECK? The wiki indicates that saving changes makes an .esp.

believe it or not, when it prompts you to save it as an esp, type in the name of your mod followed by the extension .esm and it will save it as an esm.

This was just partially tested (within the last couple mins or so of typing this) by me btw....so don't blame me if it doesn't work completely....

[edit]

Just confirmed it...it works (to the minor extent that i went with it) but each time you save the file with the [dot] ESM extension you have to give it a unique name.

[edit2]

Renaming the main esm to esp will allow you to load just your custom made esm...of course, without the proper content and coding it will not work...that's as far as I can go with this.

Unless something changed, saving with a .esm extension does not flag it as a master, and changing the esm to esp will not allow it to be edited if it really were a master, because the master flag would still be ticked in the file.

Other people have made mods with .esm files (shotgun critical fix, thermal vision), so there must be a way to do it. I mean, there should be some kind of official or at least semi-official way to do it, right?

I wonder if I can open the main FalloutNV.esm file, get rid of everything in it, then save it as something else...

Unless I'm missing something, it does.

Try importing or altering something and then saving it as a .esm...it will show the 'Status' as a master file when reopening it in GECK.

They should be made as ESP files then since they are 'plugins'...An ESM is a master file meaning the main source of content and data from what I can understand.

A 'shotgun critical fix' should never be made into an esm.

If somebody were to make a game about canada with all custom content...canada.esm would be appropriate for the format/naming conventions....



set both as 'active' and then load them both along with the main esm...then combine the both by saving it as another esp...

You're frying potato chips ...right?

You cant have 2 active files at the same time. Having a file set as "active" means that is the one you are making changes to.

So my main question here is about best modding practice rather than technical feasibility.

It would seem to me that referring to a separate mod from another mod would introduce the potential that they could behave in extremely rude ways for an end user because you can't assure the files involved that their names, load order, ect. would be the same as in your testing configurations.

Even if you could refer to an external mod you'd still have to tell it how to find it, after all.

So even if you *could* I'm not convinced it's an entirely wise idea...

Four plugin variations: If not already done, set FOMM/NVMM to show ESM's in bold. Even a false flag ESM will show as bold in that case, making it easier to visually detect what's what.

• BonaFideMaster.ESM: Bona fide ESM (ESM flag and extension)
  • Not GECK editable
  • GECK sees as a valid master
• FalseFlagMaster.esm: False flag ESM (ESM flag not ticked, but with ESM extension)
  • GECK editable
  • GECK will not see as a valid master until reload as a bona fide ESM
• NormalPlugin.esp: Normal plugin (ESM flag unticked and esp extension)
  • GECK editable
  • GECK does not see as a valid master
• FalseFlagPlugin.ESP: False flag, masterupdated esp (ESM flag ticked, but retains esp extension)
  • Not GECK editable
  • Not seen by GECK as a valid master

In any case where the GECK doesn't see a plugin as a valid master, it will remove the listed master from the active plugin's masterlist.

While the GECK can tick ESM flags (open /save a false flag .ESM file) it won't add an *ONAM list. FNVEdit, however will. To ESM'ify a plugin with FNVEdit, open it and hit F2 in the empty space to the right of "Record Flags" in the file header, then tick the ESM flag and save. Afterward, change the file extension from esp to ESM and it's then a bona fide ESM. If a plugin doesn't have overrides to a master in its CELL and/or WRLD groups, it doen'st need an ONAM list.

ONAM list is a list in a plugin's file header which lists overridden CELL and WRLD children of a plugin's master(s). If Plugin.ESM or Plugin.ESP moves or edits a NAVM, REFR, ACHR, ACRE, LAND, PGRE, or PMIS in any way, expect it to show up in the ONAM list generated by FNVEdit. False flag and normal esp files won't have ONAM lists, nor will any plugin last edited by the GECK.

Regarding load order then, do real esms always get loaded before esps? Is that a function of the esm tag, or the file name?

Just to explain why I'm doing this, I wanted to have a core file that would create basic items which could then be referenced in other esps, mostly for recipes, so there could be multiple recipe mods (esps) that all use the same core ingredient items. This would eliminate mods each having their own "cooking oil" item that is not compatible with recipes from the other mods. Cooking oil is really just an example. This is more for the ammo mods. The ones with breakdown recipes all seem to have their own different "brass" item, which is not compatible with any other mod, because each "brass" item is unique to each mod.

The best way to do what you want would probably be to make a "mod template" an esp that doesn't actually affect the game at all, but rather implements the base items modders could use. That way they'd be standardized and the resulting mods could be merged into one mod (following the tutorial on mod merging, NOT merged patches) without conflict.

Where is that tutorial and what is mod merging? Would it allow for multiple independent esps that all use the same items (EX: "cooking oil")?

Using NVSE's GetModIndex, I set up four plugins with small quests to indicate their load index in game.
Plugin descriptions:The below orders are listed from top to bottom as seen in FOMM while their actual load indexes as the game sees them is to the left.
Results:

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?p56ggf69gt15tq9's the plugins if anyone wants to study it further.

The flag seems to be the sole determinate. Masterupdated esp's can load before real ESM's, Fake ESM's can load after real esp's.