ReflectionBump maps in Morrowind : III

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:10 am

I recently downloaded the forgotten shields mod by Painkiller_Rider and was blown away by his use of reflection maps to make the shields have a bump map effect. I tried to replicate the effect using nifskope, but I have had no success. Is it possible to achieve with only nifkskope (and gimp/photoshop)? Do I need to use Max or blender? Any help is much appreciated.

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:58 am

In addition to above post, I am wondering what's the impact of Morrowind Code Patch on bump maps.

Pics please or it didn't happen. /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:31 am

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1009286&hl=

That might be the ticket.

And yes all you need is a model, PS, and Nifskope.

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:22 am

They supposedly allow them to react appropriately to the cell's current lighting conditions. Not much effect on vanilla Morrowind since only a few misc objects and enchanted stuff have reflection maps.

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:57 am

Pretty significant by endgame, when pretty much everything you're wearing is enchanted /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

» Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:03 pm

Thanks for answers. But I want to see some examples. Old-New stuff would help. Do mods those exist benefits MCP fix or need edits to fully use it?

Which mods can I try?

» Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:56 pm

Basically. If you have a reflection on an object. it can be bumped also. But you can't bump map without a reflection. the whole games lighting would have to be hacked to get a bump map allone to work. MGE tricks the setting but it's on the distance and it's not a true bump map it's more of an effect too trick the eye. If your going to bump a reflection then use a normal map. As it will work better as the map is looking for values not colors.

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:46 pm

Is there any step-by-step style tutorials. The other forum topic was all well and good, but doesn't really help a simpleton like me. I can make a normal map (at least I did for for Oblivion) but I don't understand how I implement it through Nifskope for Morrowind. Sorry if I seem like an idiot, but I'm not really well versed with Nifskope's more advanced functions.

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:28 am

The first thing is you need a working knowledge of Nifskope. How strong are you with nifs?

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:34 am

Eh... I dunno. I just really know how to change textures on them. I know what I'm looking at doing involves "Nitextureeffect" or something like that. I tried to copy the properties in nifskpope of Painkiller_Rider's meshes, but it didn't work. If I'm dabbling in stuff that is really advanced I might not want to proceed, but I thought I might as well give it a shot.

Also, has anyone tried to make a replacer for all the logical(Shiny Metal) armors in Morrowind with this technique? I know about Hedgehog's "better" armors, but they don't look a thing like the vanilla armors.

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:07 am

If you go in with the mind set that you will fail then of course you'll never be able to do it. Think in simple terms. List what your good at in nifskope. Then see what the next step will be. Read the tut's about textures effect and write back what you think it means. We'll do this one small step at a time. /foodndrink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':foodndrink:' />

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:05 am

Allright,
I'm capable in all basic retexturing and mesh removal/swapping.
I have had more success in Oblivion(with bumpmap type effects) due to the ease of use when dealing with normal maps.
I have had no problem making things for morrowind that don't involve making new meshes or using texture effects.

Examples of what I've made for Oblivion are:
Proof of Concept for Material-based armors (Steel textures on Ebony Mesh with Ebony normal map)
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/6138/proofofconceptsteel1.png

Silver Armor (various vanilla meshes with custom textures and custom normal maps)
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7435/silverarmor.png

I am having trouble finding the tutorials for the texture effect function; Know where one might be?

» Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:42 pm

Looks good.

Look up NiTextureEffect .... environment map. Read up on it and let me know what you think it means.

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:58 am

Continue here

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1077691&st=0&p=15688389&#entry15688389

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:48 am

Why to guess? Bump maps used in MW/NetImmerse are nicely described in available official NDL docs for MaxImmerse (Max nif exporter).
Other modern maps (normals, parallax, etc.) in official Emergent video tutorials:

http://www.gamebryo101.com/learn-gamebryo/gamebryo-tv

/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

» Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:13 pm

Can I SEE something NEW in-game benefits MCP's bump map fix. I feel like I'm missing all the fun. /dry.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='<_<' />

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:30 am

Morrowind is hard coded. So it can't use bumps the normal way. It needs to go thru the envmap map (reflect) and be attached that way. it's coded that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:55 am

"Normal way" of using/creating MW/NetImmerse bump maps is described in NDL MaxImmerse docs. TES Max exporter does not properly export these maps but MaxImmerse and FF Max exporter do (both are also as MW for nif 4.0.0.2 format). Bump maps are "hardcoded" in the same way as other maps e.g. diffuse/base maps/textures. They different only in the sense that they need special "endogenous" light source ?NiTextureEffect.

/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

» Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:05 pm

What are you in high school. Just prove yourself right and do it. Talk is cheap.

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:33 am

Aha, personal offensive is expensive.

But, MW is based on modified MaxImmerse 4.1 and we do not know a lot about these modifications. For unclear to me reasons community modders do not like to read MaxImmerse/NetImmerse/Gamebryo/LightSpeed docs. I am not an artist or game designer. Therefore, I think that if more members with different modding expertise could study these materials the better might be chances to discover something new and usable for all of us.

/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:57 am

So in other words you can't do it. Everything you quoted just proves what I've been saying. P.M. If you wish.

» Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:54 pm

Me and PK (with ome help from other modders) are working on something quite new definitely unused in MW. More on that later, completely only .nif related, no mge stuff...

Let there be. light

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:54 am

He's been trying to get into the light cues of the game for awhile now. Where do you think I learned all this. /foodndrink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':foodndrink:' />

I hope you guys crack it.

» Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:09 am

Well, I am modding MW for fun, when I have time, and what is interesting for me. Being a bad texturer I am not that interested in any mapping.
FYI: I have discovered MW bump maps independently from Russians (I have found their tutorials and mods later) using CivIV Max exporter and MaxImmerse instructions, and of cause NifScope.
Only Vality7 and Symon69 were interested in my bump posts on the MW TESCS Forum at that time (Jan, 2008).

/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

» Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:07 pm

I'm not a texturer nor modeler, but I'm very interested. For fun maybe you can do a demonstration.

I did some google:
From resume of J. Scott Hoffman
http://cougar.kniggets.org/resume.html

I wanna ask which bump-normal mapping and per-pixel lighting? /tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

You know if there is a shader for per-pixel lighting, that shader can be extended into full-blown unified lighting shader, some 5000 lines of shader work and we present you next-gen Morrowind.