I have voiced concerns regarding the removal of classes from Skyrim before and there is usually a fairly large group of people who disregard classes as unnecessary, needlessly limiting, etc etc etc. This is actually a point of great concern for me because the last time I check the Elder Scrolls series was, shockingly enough, an interactive role-playing game. This is something about the series that I have loved. I also have noticed a distinct, I want to say disregard and even disdain for this. In particular, I have noticed a distinct Duke Nukem-esque approach to weapons and skills.

The idea that you can in effect pick up any weapon, be it sword, mace, or dagger, and be able to do damage with it let alone kill an armored and armed opponent. This is regrettably not so. Nor is it so that PC's (player characters) are actually born yesterday. The fact is, if a person is born into a game world destined for PC-dom and all the glory and fame that is associated with it, then chances are they have been doing something with their lives before we get to cart them around.

Enter the Classes!

For the sake of not rambling on and on, or at least not more than I already have, I'll stick with the three Archetypes.

Thief: They usually don't get formal training and their skills are almost always stealth based and are self taught, sometimes trading secrets with other thieves. As a result aren't very good in an out and out fight.

Mage: Years and years of studying the arcane arts under either a single master or in a larger community of mages in an academy or school (no Harry Potter jokes) with other students. Careful study is more important to this class than most others mostly due to the fact that poor ability can often lead to death and worse with even the simplest of spells.

Warrior: Years of training with various weapons and armor usually as part of a militia or mercenary unit or even a full army. Because of their focus on the physical they generally don't study magic and because of the nature of their training they're not very stealthy.

I went through that for the reason that I feel that not having a set of skills at the beginning is not only unrealistic, but also very immersion breaking for me. Now, That said, I am wondering what you think. Do you think the above should matter or are you all for wild sword waving and rampant spellcasting with no "realism"? Also TL : DR?

The threat of execution gave your character amnesia which is why all skills are level 5

Problem solved

Why?

If you want to be someone, then go be someone. Earn it. Don't just get it handed to you at the start of the game. Evolve as a person.

I don't want classes in because they also restrict freedom to develop a character.
I'd have liked some sort of system for background/prior experience but I can live with a blank slate character. It will be like Runequest when 1 of the options the referee could select was for all PCs to start at age 16 with base chance in everything.

I've already offered several solutions to this problem.

One of the more unique ones I gave was to roleplay that you were nabbed at the border......as a baby. Your parents were who the guards were really stopping but you happened to be with them and they imprisoned you as well. You've been in prison your who life and are now being executed for whatever reason. I could offer reasons for this, too, if you're really that uncreative.

Your character's a natural.

Plus, my cousin didn't study at all on her wizard tests and she aced them. She's just good. Magic works in mysterious ways, and for you to think that there is only one way to learn it (by studying for years) is foolish.

Skyrim takes the approach that you are not your class from the start, but you BECOME it. If you look, this is true of the previous games as well.

I have said this before and I'll say it again.

Stats, number-esque features, limitations such as classes, are NOT important features of an RPG. They are TOOLS for you to grasp what you are, how good you are at stuff, how strong/fast/smart, etc.

They have been around for a long time, but innovation wins once again. Actually, many games did this before elder scrolls, but now that they are doing it hopefully everyone will, because quite honestly all those features do is pig pen you into a role and restrict your freedom to explore... which IS an important feature of an RPG.

Thank god there's no stats/classes. I hope they cease to exist except in MMO's.

At first, the removal of the class system worried me. But now, after giving it some thought, I've decided not to make a firm decision on it until I see how this new system works. Besides, I rather like the idea of my character having no formal training in anything (thus his skills in everything being relatively crappy at the beginning) that makes it so much more amazing that he saves the world from Alduin. :thumbsup:

The failing of The Penumbran Wolf is the desire for "realism" in a world based loosely on ours, and only by our mythology.
The hubris of The Penumbran Wolf is to think that, because a game doesn't tell you where you came from, means that your character is, automatically, a perpetually disoriented clown, since he doesn't have the imagination to assume a story themselves.
The tragedy is that to disagree with him means you must be a victim of severe ADHD...

classes by their very nature are restrictive. you are dragon born, you have no limits. i would like the option to boost a couple of skills from the start though.

But that is my point. You don't start at birth with your character. I assume they've actually been doing something with their lives. Otherwise we're pretty damn screwed.



I think a system where you start with a class, but it doesn't stop you from picking up other skills, like older TES games, would be great.



Well I hope you enjoy blowing your fingers off or summoning something you can't control.

Way to completely ignore my post which utterly annihilates this weak point.

How convenient :rolleyes:

Yes, yes, every time a feature is removed there are people quick on the fence about how less customisation is a good thing.
Yawn.

Anyway, I hope that at character creation we will get some skill points to spend, maybe even a starting perk.
Something like Fallout.

If there are, say, 15 points you can freely spend on skills you could still have a character at the start customised to your playstyle and roleplaying preference.
I really hope it will be something like this and not even scores on all skills, as that would be, well, lame.

I love classes, but mostly those that exist in other games like Dragon Age and D&D since they are different from each other. The nature of the leveling and skills in TES leaves classes useless so I think the new approach is the most logical one. I will still play like a Paladin/Crusader with or without a class-title telling me that is what i am.

I concur with OP's argument.

If your character started out as a child, then maybe I could see he or she being classless, a blank slate. But I think we start out as advlts so it would make sense to have classes in this case

:rolleyes:
Some people just don't get it.

First, there are numerous RPGs without classes. Classes are not a requirement for RPGs!

Second, a starting skillset is NOT a class. Class is something that sticks with you.

Third, just because there are no limitations at the beginning, it doesn't mean there won't be later on.
You said we'll be able to pick up any weapon and actually kill people with it? Well you could do the exact same thing in Oblivion. I think Oblivion then doesn't have classes :bonk:
Seriously, NOT all characters are going to be the same. With every level up you'll have to choose between Health, Magicka and Fatigue, you can't choose all three. There's probably no upper limit, as there's no upper limit for levels, so you won't hit a maximum health level at one point, where you cannot raise it anymore.
Also, perks. It is limited up to 50 out of 280. There were threads that already said how perks could limit their characters, and basically that's the bloody point, the 50 limit is in so not every character will be the same!

As for the "no background" thing, starting out level one is really not that different. You know so little because you just started doing it, you barely know the basics. If you really need it for your background just roleplay that you picked up the sword at beginning instead of the mace, because you remember the teachings you had back in the day, only they've got a bit dusty...

I totally share your concerns.

My Skyrim Starting Character "Build":

Race: Bosmer (only for cosmetic reasons)
Gender: Female (I'm a female, and my character represents me)
Class: Prisoner
Birthsign: None (Clones don't get to have birthdays . . . because they were not born)
Skills: None
Education: None
Experience: None

Second character (see above).

The problem for me is that there is no more real initial character build (so that no one will be able to make a "bad" character build, along with the consequences, or "bad" limitations on their character). You always start out as a Prisoner/Clone, and then "build" you character by just whacking your way through the game, with rapid leveling, and a mess of Perk Bonuses. This sounds more like an Action/FPS than a RPG to me. I like to actually build my character at the beginning of each game . . . not start out exactly the same each time, and then improve my skills unrealistically fast during the game.

Based on a 200 hour game estimate: a beginning, totally average character with no specializations at all (Class in Morrowind and Oblivion), can become the best Mage/Warrior/Thief in all of Skyrim in less than one game year (200 real hours * 30 Timescale / 24 = 250 game days]. Unbelievable!

I'm not sure it's so unrealistic. And I don't think we even need to imagine your character starting out as a child, or as being in the dungeon since childhood.

Why not just imagine that your character is a commoner, with no noteworthy combat, magic, or stealthy abilities? Whatever the baseline starting skill level is, just think of that as being the skill possessed by the average commoner (modulo racial benefits).

Just like in Oblivion/Morrowind/Daggerfall...

And you really overblow this "fast leveling" bit...

I prefer to start the game assuming my character is just starting out in the world.

not a yet a warrior, but a squire or sword carrier

not a mage, but an assistant or apprentice

not a thief, but a young ruffian from the streets who doesn't know how to pick locks yet

not a ranger, but a young man or lady who feels an affinity with nature

etc.

That's what I was getting at too. This actually makes a lot of sense, and if you want to RP that your character DOES have history in combat/magic/stealth or whatever, just say your skills got rusty after your time in prison. For all we know you coulda been in there for years.

I've always liked the nightblade class, but since Oblivion changed the skill system the way it did I found it hard to play one.

In Skyrim it seems more plausible with the whole perk thing, since I assume if you wanted to you could just level your destruction a bit and put only points into something like shock spells. Meaning you can choose certain things from certain skills without having to level them up completely to make it viable... that is how it works, right?

I agree, we werent born in that prison. There should be some way in the beginning to pick certain advantage/disadvantages. which is basically just custom classes. The only reason they removed them is to appeal to people that want to play it like an action game, switching builds on the fly (which is beyond stupid).

So you did! I must have read your post too quickly (if at all). :thumbsup: