I don't recall it ever being clarified if more Councilors exist within the three great houses present on Vvardenfell than those which appeared in the game. Were all of them placed on Vvardenfell for gameplay reasons? Come to think of it, are Gothren, Dren and Venim even the ultimate rulers of their respective houses, or simply the leaders within the frontier of Vvardenfell?

This might be something of a stupid question, but I don't recall any mention at all being made of councilors existing on the mainland which always struck me as odd, even if Vvardenfell is currently the primary focus of the Hlaalu, Redoran and Telvanni ever since being open for settlement.

From Brown Book of 3e 426: [The Brown Book is a yearbook of the affairs of the Telvanni Council of Vvardenfell District for 3E 426. It lists the current members of the council, their residences, and their representatives in Sadrith Mora. It also chronicles significant events and council actions for the year.]

It's assumed that there are Councilors on the mainland as well. The Great House books (Red, Brown & Yellow) state such things as:

"-The Brown Book is a yearbook of the affairs of the Telvanni Council of Vvardenfell District for 3E 426.
-Councilors of House Telvanni, Vvardenfell District, Imperial Era 426"http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/brown_book_426.shtml

So those are just the Councilors of Vvardenfell District, meaning there must be Councilors for the other district[s]... And I'd assume that those three are just the leaders of the Vvardenfell District Councils, who (if there even is one) the overall leader is or might be is unknown as far as I'm aware...

Edit: You know, I'm coming to find that I take way too long making my posts...

No, I just make them to fast. I should have added some more info and made a more in-depth post.

It's safe to say that the Councilors are the authority for their houses exclusive to Vvardenfell. The "quarantine" in place around Vvardenfell due to the Blight seems to have split the respective Houses from their isolated kin on the island.

Aren't the Redoran one head of the House, though? I seem to recall a mention of them moving over to the island on some point.

I think that Ald'ruhn was the main centre for the Redorans in all of Morrowind before the quarantine, but the main Telvani capital is called Port Telvanis and is on an island east of VVardenfaell. The Hlaalu capital is on the mainland (I think).

Apparently yes. But I doubt the Redoran are so oblivious to current events to not to leave a sizable amount of their power on the Mainland, considering they are Frontier to Skyrim.

Indeed..aren't they under constant attack from their old nemeses, the Nords?
And haven't those attacks increased since the fall of Ald'Ruhn?

It's always possible that a large portion of the Redoran in Ald'Ruhn were sent to fight the Nords, so the city wasn't at full strength when the Daedra attacked.

With or without all their troops, it wouldn't matter...all the most powerful warriors were there, and their summoners resurrected the Emperor Crab itself...a few hundred extra Dunmer soldiers would have made little difference against the siege engine and the hoardes of lesser Daedra.

I always figured the main Redoran army stayed back west all the time, and only a "few" of them moved east with their leaders.

Oh, and Hairdo, I think the attacks were reduced during the Oblivion Crisis. Skyrim was pretty well assaulted too, and it would make no sense of them to keep the "Morrowind invasion" going while their homes were being burned and their cities sacked back home.

There wasn't much reason for Ald'Ruhn to remain at full strength after the demise of the Sixth House, other than Redoran militarism and tradition.

One person made a difference at the Battle of Kvatch. And because Redoran's duty is to protect Morrowind from the Nords, they'd be sent to fight the invaders.

One very special person made a difference at Kvatch. And the battle had already been lost, and the main Daedra force had moved on. It is unknown if the Hero's presence would have made a difference in the actual battle. But again, he is the PC, and he is special.

And I thought the Redoran won a pyrrhic victory at Ald'Ruhn. I could very well be wrong though.

I'd say on Vvardenfell they did. Ald'Ruhn, Maar Gan and most of West Gash routed probably. Expect major grabbings by Hlaalu and Telvanni.

Aldruhn had far more soldiers than Kvatch. And given the invasion, they wouldn't all be sitting around while the Nords are invading.


Or as Lord Rugdumph gro-Shurgak would say, a phallic victory.


I doubt they'd try that at the time, considering that Redoran is the only thing standing between them and getting sacked by the Nords.

Vvardenfell holdings only, of course.

Are we of the general opinion, then, that the time of the Daedra attack on Ald'Ruhn was before, during, or after the invasion by the Nords?

Given the way the Rumors system was set up in Oblivion, it doesn't really specify WHEN the Nords invaded...it just says that they invaded. And since they're not really an accurate date of when the Daedra invade Tamriel (as it's all based on when the PC decides to start the MQ), it seems that there's a bit of a discrepency as to the actual timeline of things.

I always thought the Nords started invading BEFORE the events of Oblivion, and that it was still going on when the Daedra decided to come storming into Tamriel. Is this the generally accepted view of the rest of the forum?

It is mine. That way, the Oblivion Crisis would've hit Skyrim really hard. And caused the Skyrim invasion troupes to do a hastily withdrawal.
...Hopefully, leaving their Orc mercenaries in an "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabasis_%28Xenophon%29" situation if the next game takes place in Skyrim.
That would make the game for me.