Since I'm busy with my Thieves Guild mod I wanted it to be a bit expanded and give Nocturnal a bigger (not too big, The Thieves Isn't some kind of religious cult)..

Most people just think plain saying that Nocturnal is the enemy of the Fox since he stole her cowl....
But I think she chose him in some sort off way that he is her champion...

First reason is that she allowed him to keep the cowl, she cursed it, but he could keep it, if she really wanted it back she would have used more force, mayby even sent some people after it (see did it to retrieve her eye remember)... A daedra would easily get back an item from a thief... The cowl itself couldn't be really used against her since the curse is the thing that makes it so powerfull.... wich brings me to my second reason:
The second reason why I think that The fox is more or less her champion is because of the curse itself... In many ways it's really a curse to the person since he isn't able to feel the warm love of his family and friends again... On the other hand it makes him a hell of a thief... Even better then a ungoing invisibility spell... Being able to take it off any time without ever being recogenized (sorry for the english ).. the life detection and the bg feather spell allows him to carry awfull lot of loot...
The Third reason, wich is actually more of a conclusion of the others is that it just all fits within Nocturnal's personality.. since the fox will be hidden for ever not being revealed to the daylight ever....
The Fourth reason, a quite short one.. is that almost every thieves guild members say at the end: "shadow hide you" wich is written on the cowl... so in some ways "shadow hide you" is a blessing of Nocturnal to the wearer of the cowl...
The last reason, wich might be wrong since I don't know really much about the power of the Elderscrolls and such but..... When the curse was lifted.... That would mean, that if Nocturnal is the fox' enemy, she would curse it again, or i that's impossible another curse, or just tries to retrieve it.... but... first off all, the whole curse isn't lifted, the positive site of the curse, the site wich makes the fox a master thief, still remains on the cowl, so you could say that in some ways she allows the Fox to be the master thief.....


So from this reasons I got the conclusions that the fox is more or less Nocturnal's Champion because she chose to after the cowl was stolen from her.. (who knows, mayby even that was somekind off set-up).... but let's not discuss that....

This is also implied in the Gray Cowl Instructions:








It isn't suprising that the enchantment of a Daedric Artifact suit it's maker. But, like Wabbajack, there is nothing more to it like that.





Then why did the curse have a negative aspect to begin with?


The word 'champion' seems to imply that the Fox freely chose his role. Couldn't the Fox jus bet a simple tool to Nocturnal? Or maybe the Fox is an amusing diversion/pet, a thief that cannot be caught?


The phrase 'Shadow Hide You' is a reference to Nocturnal, not the Fox. The same phrase can simple be found on the Cowl, because it is hers. The phrase itself meanse nothing more than 'good luck'

Can you explain me then about Clavicus Vile's Mask? since I don't know it..... Anyway I didn't ment the cowl, I ment the Fox and his whole story...




ehm.. mayby he doesn't find it fun that the ones he loves can't recoginize him anymore XD just a wild guess......


Gods choise their champions, and to grant someone the cowl doesn't sound to me like a pet...


It can be found on the cowl, wich was stolen be the gray fox, wich made him the gray fox.... If he never stole the cowl, the guild would never use the phrase... So in my opinion it's more a reference to the Fox then Nocturnal (Ofcourse, it is a reference to her, but it's more for what he did, then what she did.)



No, :blink: Really?!

:P

I think that the cowl's positive effects were always there, thats why the Gray Fox took it. The negative effects are the curse that Nocturnal put on him.

I also thought about it, but I think you're indeed right.. although nothing is clear I guess why Dareloth took can't really be known... Mayby it's just for the honor of stealing from a Daedra.. I think you can promote yourself as Masterthief after that

Good concept, here's my two cents:

First: Nocturnal had an unspoken invitation to steal her cowl. Sort of a challenge if you will. To the one successful thief, goes the ultimate prize, but like all things Daedric, its a double-edged blade.

Second: You're going to need a firmer rationale as for why Nocturnal would 'implement' a thieves' guild and then cripple the effectiveness of its leader. If she is subtly making a band of thieves, then she is going to want to see it flourish, I think. So it wouldn't make sense for her to curse the thief in a way that he couldn't manage his guild. I understand the curse stands to show that you should never steal from a Daedra Prince and not expect consequences, but see previous.

The Cowel was an advantage. Corvus managed the guild ably, except when his messengers glitched.

I think that Nocturnal doesn't care about the guild and doesn't help the guild, she gave the fox the cowl and more she wouldn't do I guess...