I'm still trying to figure out why I despise the idea of a remake, maybe its because I have already played them so I don't see the point of remaking them, or because I think Fallout should have stayed Isometric, I'm not a huge fan of turn based, but in my opinion it worked very well with the Fallout games, so it was a bit jarring for it go from a Turn Based Isometric RPG to Real Time FPS/TPS with RPG Elements, and completely unnecessary, it would have been very interesting to see what Bethesda could have done outside of their usual Real Time FPS Pseudo RPG's, but they where lazy and didn't want to change up their formula, so they alienated most of the original fan base to please their own while putting as little effort as they possibly could into a game.

wait, what was I talking about?

You hate the idea of a remake because you loved the originals and you naturally feel defensive. Nothing wrong with that.
I'm more of a book person than a video game person, and I am exactly the same way about posthumous additions, like the new, awful Dune novels and the millions of wretched Robert E Howard pastiches.
But I'm also an equanimous old fart so I've made my peace with it and stuck to the originals, which is what you can do with Fallout. As long as you have the originals there's no reason, really, to oppose remakes for those who prefer the FPS style. Up at the front of this thread I came out in favor of remakes because I admire the writing and stories of the 2 originals; I don't enjoy the isometric perspective (I find it hard to see stuff).
About Bethesda choosing their house style for F3 -- It may be undesirable for some gamers but turn-based (except when gussied up like VATS) is on its way out. I'm not sure, knowing squat about programming, but I'm guessing it was more a design necessity than a choice. The computers back then probably couldn't handle it.
You seem very knowledgeable about the series, so maybe you can answer a question for me. Do you know if the original design team ever considered 1st person perspective? Was it even available at the time? (My memory is hazy -- old fart, like I said). I can't help wondering if they used the best the tech could offer; I wonder if they would have produced a 1st person game if they could have. The Obsidian guys certainly enhanced the FPS aspects of F3 in New Vegas (not that they were necessarily the original devs -- didn't they come on board later?), but they are getting praise for it. Weird.

I'm curious about one more thing, and this isn't specifically directed at you, although you can answer. Now, be honest -- If there was never a Fallout 3 and New Vegas was the 3rd 'official' game, would you be happy with it or would you complain about the new game style?

There where Real Time games back then, it was a design choice, Tim Cain started making Fallout as an Isometric Turn Based game.


That is something you would have to ask the original devs, but from interviews from what I can tell it was always going to be Isometric and Turn Based, and I do agree, the FPS aspect in New Vegas is a lot better then Fallout 3, I think Iron Sights has a lot to do with that.


No I wouldn't be happy, but I would get over it like I already have, I just think (or wish rather) that Fallout stayed Isometric, I mean Diablo 3 is staying isometric, why not Fallout? but then again I can't totally hate Fallout 3, as it made me go back and play the original games, I just happen to think they are vastly superior in just about every way.

I hear you. Despite the things I mentioned here, I admire the games and am happy they have become available for younger players.
Off to eat turkey.
Happy Thanksgiving.

Thats over stating it a bit, in fact that statement is completely rediculous :rofl:

This is Jones over and out!

Isometric Turn Based Gameplay is a complete so different from Real Time FPS, I don't know who's bright idea it was to do that, so it may seem ridiculous what I said (which it is lol) there is some truth in it.

actually let me put it this way, what if the next Elder Scrolls was an Isometric Turn Based RPG, how would feel then?

Comparing it to a flight sim, really just pushed the boat out for me, while I agree they are different not by that much though. I was really surprised you said it, I thought this persons gotta be in a really bad mood or just plain sick of people calling for the remake. I won't stop so get used to it lol

Elder scrolls, looking forward to that but I'm used to playing D&D many years ago and Fantasy games being turn based isn't something unusual for me.
Would I buy it, well I'd let my sister get it first and watch her playing see if it was any good, I'd be 50 50 on it. But I wouldn't completely rule it out, I'd be willing to try it or look at it and then decide whether I wanted it.

But most importantly I WOULDN'T vote NO against it being turn based or made because of that reason, if thats what the Devs wanted to do then let them make it that way. You see thats my problem with a lot people on these forums. Its just that these people vote NO we don't want it and you can't have it either attitude, that is really annoying. So I call for the FOs to be remade more & more because of their Dog & Manger attitude.

If Beth or Ob stated the next FO is gonna be TB only, I'd probably still get it and give it a go, its not my thing but I'm not so intolerant to the idea, I'd probably buy it cause I love the Fallout Universe

Personally, I have to be the grumpy guy and say that remakes are just a real waste of time generally speaking. Games or movies, doesn't matter. Let's be creative and do something *new* instead, hell, the industry is already struggling with how sequel-heavy it is.

That said, if we're talking about something like the Monkey Island re-releases, I wouldn't be opposed to the games just getting a graphical upgrade and making sure it runs great on new computers. But if you start touching the gameplay, removing design decisions then that's just messing with a beautiful vision. The games are what they are, not because the developers were held back by technology or anything. It's been detailed time and time again what the developers wanted to accomplish with the games. And in many ways, it was a game that was going against the mainstream back then. Turnbased isometric games were definitely not the norm or the most "popular" choice.
Other people moving in and messing with that is just awful, whether it be in games, music, movies, art in general etc.

Generally speaking, I'd much rather have the effort be put towards something new instead.

To be honest I would have less of a problem if it was just a graphics upgrade, I still probably wouldn't play it though.

The biggest issue with a Remake of Fallout with the Havok Engine is creative license would have to be taken, simply to make the game work.

Yeah, seeing the towns and encampments in first person, 3D perspective would be neat, no doubt about it. But a faithful recreation of the game world would end up with a lot of empty space. There was nothing to do/see outside the settlements. I stopped in some of the city ruins on the game world map, in the hopes that maybe there'd be a dresser to loot...nope. Just building foundations.

Even factoring in all the possible Random Encounter locations, the Wasteland of Fallout would still have to be created almost entirely from scratch.


Then there's the Story. I just wrapped up a play through of Fallout a few days ago. It's still as fun today as I was thirteen years ago, don't get me wrong, but at the same time the story is extraordinarily bare bones. Stuff simply isn't fleshed out and everything is there to serve a purpose and do no more. Shady Sands is rare in that you can revisit it and find something new to do. Quests are needlessly vague in their aim and direction, and the Main Quest is as simplistic as you can get: Get Water Chip. Kill Mutants. You're given no emotional connection to Vault 13 what-so-ever.

Fallout is a good game, but it's also very much the first game. Fallout, if remade, would benefit from some creative license in regards to the world around it as well as how some of the organizations (The Brotherhood of Steel and the Followers of the Apocalypse especially) interact with the player character.

If Fallout was to be remade with zero improvements what-so-ever, I think even older fans would feel it was an inferior production. Nostalgia would insist the original was superior, even if they were remade line for line, choice for choice. I know going from a vague seven year old memory of the confrontation with the Master to the actual experience less then a week ago, the seven year memory made that encounter seem a lot cooler then it actually was.

Or turning Front Mission into a third person shooter. Gawd did Front Mission: Evolved svck.

For the ideas I'm throwing through my head for a Core Region Revisit mod, I was thinking perhaps dialogue with the town gate which moves you depending on the dialogue option to your selected destination. It does however mean an end to random encounters.

Random encounters can be easily scripted to ressemble Fallout's. Simply giving the script a random chance, depending on factors (Luck, Survival), and spawning the critters in a pre-designed area like the previous Fallouts is doable.

I'm currently working on a New Vegas mod to work as a guard for the Crimson Caravan, like in Fallout 1. Random encounters are easily done.

I would laugh, because it would be a crazy, commercially suicidal move on Bethesda's part.
I'd be disappointed but not upset. I wouldn't buy it.

And what do you base that speculation on? Some Extensive Market Research by any chance or is that your opinion backed up by nothing much???? Maybe once that statement could have stood up but with all the newbies (ie probably the hardcoe Shooter Crew[note the word probably there]) that FO3 brought to the Fallout gaming franchise (myself included) I think your claim is both unfounded and well incorrect
Whereas my statement I could probably back up with a look at the sales from FO2 compared to the sales of FO3 see if there was a significant sales increase and I could project whether it would be a loss, break even or profit

I don't see why they should waste time and money on re-making a game that already exists and can be played just fine on modern PCs, if they could be making a brand new Fallout game instead.

Why do people want a remake so badly? Because they heard the original games were good? So play those the way they are now, and let Bethesda make something new.

Damn, man -- you put in smileys so I can't tell if you're joking or not.

Sorry if I gave you the impression I was speaking from some sort of self-imposed authority -- this is not at all the case. It gets boring if you have to write THIS IS SPECULATION at the top of every post, you know? Unless a post is made by a developer we are all speculating.

But no, no extensive market research here. It's just (to me, anyway) common sense. Bethesda has a formula for RPGs; some love it, some hate it. For them to deviate from the financially successful formula in such an extreme manner would be very, very surprising.

Your challenge did spur me to do a cheap N easy Google search, though -- Here's what I found:http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2008/11/04/fallout-3-outsells-all-previous-fallout-games/1
Near as I can tell, and more than happy to be corrected, it looks like F3 outsold all previous titles in the series in it's first week of release. That includes consoles, though, so your mileage may vary.

Please note that I am not pretending this information to be definitive -- it's just the 1st thing that came up when I Googled.

Peace!

Now see, I would not care for that in the slightest. Part of the appeal (for me) in these new First Person Fallouts is a chance to explore the Wasteland. It always bugged the crap out of me that the World Map showed all these blasted out settlements and there was nothing to see about them. Fallout 3, my first week was basically me going "What's over there?!".

I'm just quickly on the site. I'll read your post later when I have the time, I put smileys in cause I'm not trying to offend you, I do want to have a sensibile conversation but don't take it seriously, I am half pulling your leg but still making a point at the same time.

For the post above yours, I hate gaming on a PC, I own the Fallouts and I've played them but still can't complete Tactics because of my BoS file keeps crashing the game, I'd be happy to have them on my 360 to play and getting Linux on my PS3 is just a serious mission, I can't really afford at the moment. I love the Fallout universe! I just wanna have them on my 360

:) "Fallout 3 outsells all previous Fallout Games" I just checked your link This is my point that all the new Fallout gamers that arrived with the success for FO3 are the ones who will buy the remakes and some of the older FO gamers will as well but not all. I've said before I just want to have them on my console but if I can get a remake in the style of FO3, I'd be so happy, I'll be jumping for joy, while I understand your common sense says Failure my common sense says they'll be a success to a certain extent. So whos wrong and whos right? We're both opposite ends of the opinion really aren't we, if we meet in the middle than Beth would break even at least and there will be many newbies and sum older FO who'll be very happy whilst other will remain unhappy about it anyway, I know what your saying about a New Game, we just got one "Vegas" and I'm sure FO4 will get made eventually anyway but we now have two Devs Beth and Ob instead of just one, maybe we can now have two companies working together to do both old remakes and new games as well. Two heads are better than one If I were to base an outcome on how I feel about it (rather than my head) I think the remakes will be a greater success than my level headed prediction. The Remakes if marketed correctly will top the charts in my opinion, this is based on nothing but emotion so don't take it as written in stone lol If FO1 &2 & Tactics ended up on Xbox Live and/or the PSN for download, I'd nearly be satisfied with that. Don't like PCs for gaming but I did force myself so I cud play the Originals

I think we have a misunderstanding; if you read back you'll see that I'm all in favor of remaking the first two Fallouts. My comment about commercial suicide was in response to a question about Bethesda releasing the new Elder Scrolls as a turn based, isometric game.

Go ahead and read back -- I think you'll see we agree on things.

For the record, I don't really mind turn-based combat. I've played a million of 'em. Hell, I still play Might & Magic 6,7 & 8 now and then (but not that abomination 9). It's the isometric view that I have issues with. But if 1 & 2 were released with nothing changed but the ability to move freely, I'd be more than satisfied.

Cool, blame me, sometimes I only get a chance to skim over things, definitely my fault, sorry, I don't get as long to read everything as I'd like all the time. But glad we agree Regardless though the Game Sales Article was beneficial anyway, thanks

Whats your beef with PC Gaming Jones?

and because Fallout 3 made more money doesn't mean its better, Fallout was a niche game.

1stly I'm not saying because Fallout 3 made more money it was better, it just is Better!
I was having a hypothetically discussion about projected sales of remaking FO1 & 2 would it sell well or not.

2ndly PC GAMING? I HATE IT! I've been over this a couple of times before, guess I'll go over it again, I'm currently or was playing Fallout Tactics my BoS file (exe. I presume) keeps kicking me out of the game all the time "theres been a problem with BoS exe we have to close the game", ALL THE TIME! I still haven't completed it because of this, yes I've tried, reinstalling blah blah blah, I have a plug and play attitude which I don't really get with PC gaming, do you have the right patch, will it work on your system, will I need a Graphics card and on and on and on. I stick a game in my 360 or a film in my DVD player, I expect it to work right away first time or else it goes back to the store for an exchange none of this faffing around to get to work on your PC, oh great I have to install this again etc etc etc I've more to whinge about but I'm not going to I'm not just talking about past Fallout Games but modern games as well I have to get this that and the other to get to work properly, you understand?????? Consoles may have there own problems but for me they are few and far between, I don't have to run downtown to buy a new graphics card so my game works properly But as far as remakes go I like FPS games, turn-based combat hacks me off and ISO view is ok but its true 3rd or 1st perspect. for me, thats what I like realtime as well.

In your own opinion you mean, a lot of people would disagree with you.



So you hate PC gaming because your PC svcks? and because you have to put work into your pc? :blink:

I'm sorry what? thats like me saying I hate consoles because they are too easy to use, if you like consoles over PC, thats fine, but don't condemn PC Gaming because your rig isn't very good.

You also have to take into account the times. Gaming wasn't as "Main stream" as it is now. Plus inflation and all that.