Hi everybody,

I was on this forum like 6 years ago discussing and posting about what kind of a game Oblivion should be, and what should be improved over Morrowind. The forum discussions at that time were sometimes very intense and there was even some flaming because one group of gamers wanted a more action based game, while the other group wanted more of a turn based type of a game.

In the end, Bethesda devs did only what they thought Oblivion needed - and they thought it needed to sell, so they listened to advice from console gamers which were not even participating of the forum at that time, and made a pretty shallow rpg named Oblivion. Okay, Oblivion is not that bad of a game, but you must admit that it could have been a lot better if only Bethesda devs knew anything about gameplay value.

I'm saying this because, for an example, Daggerfall had, and still has, the best character creation system ever created in a rpg game, but you will never see such a system in a new game like Skyrim. Why? Because it would be to complicated for little kids on consoles to understand.

Another example is Morrowind. That game gave the player so much freedom, from levitating, jumping over whole cities, teleporting via mark and recall or divine intervention, that no other future TES game will never get to that level of freedom. Why? Because such freedom is to complicated for little kids on consoles to comprehend.

So, you can post your advice and wish lists here on the forum, but know one thing, this is all a big business and all that Bethesda cares right now it to make a lot of money on Skyrim, not to create a great game.

I do hope I'm wrong.

Take care

I'm sure it's us console layer "fault", right?

I stopped reading at the beginning of your insults towards console players.

Of course! We're a blight against the glorious PC gaming master race!

Seriously, just ignore this guy. Better to let ignorance like that lie.

Wow, you are assuming on steroids!!!

I am a console player cause I can't afford to have a computer, and I have no technological knowledge to build one. I prefer that Skyrim be a DIFFICULT game. I want the RPG mechanics to be top knotch. I LOVE complication and FREEDOM. Your elitist attitude is disgusting.

Your bashing of consoles is disgusting and uncalled for.

Have to agree that the OPs post went downhill the moment he started with digs at console players.....and I'm a PC player.

Just because you stopped reading doesn't make what he said untrue. Each Elderscrolls game has been scaled back from the one before it. But they all retained complexity and freedom, until Oblivion. And yes, the game was designed around consoles (the UI is evidence of that). And yes, Oblivion had a lot less of just about everything.

lol it's not console players faults, they just wanna simplify games now-adays so they can get a bigger audience to buy it.

I'm not trying to insult anybody.

I'm just saying that the money, unfortunately for the gaming industry today, is where little kids on consoles are.

Listen friend, not all console players insult each others Moms and say that's what she said every other sentence. I own a PS3 and I like it but it doesn't mean I'm a babbling idiot who can't understand RPG's. Your point was lost in your argument because you insulted a genre of gamers without remembering there are smart people out there. Next time, stick to the argument and don't insult console gamers, I wouldn't even use my PS3 for everything if I had tons of money for a good PC.

Edit: I don't understand why so many PC gamers think they are the master race. I'm not trying to insult PC gamers, but seriously. Guys who think they're better then us, stop being so full of yourself. There are plenty of PC players who don't think they are the masters, try to be like them please.

"If only Bethesda devs knew anything about gameplay value." Are you insane? They've created two game of the years in a decade. Critics have given unending praise to Oblivion and Fallout 3. They are both great games. If you want to make an argument, don't start off by bashing console users and saying one of the most popular developers doesn't know about gameplay value.

Uhh, what?

Yeah, you know what, you're right. I hang my head in shame. Off to play my Zelda games D :

I am only new to Elder Scrolls on PC, so I think it's a little baised, as I love the games on consol, but I hate how simplified it's gotten. I think you're half right. Yeah, I think it's too complicated for a lot of people, but I don't think that it makes a difference what system they played the game on.

That being said, I first started playing Morrowind when I was 13, and even though a lot of the character development went over my head, I still had a blast playing it. I belive that as long as they take the "stat-roll" aspect out of the game, like Oblivion, Bethesda can still keep Skyrim complex. To the casual player, level stats are mostly bragging rights. The important thing is being able to vanquish the bad guy at the end of the day.

Many PC players are also people who HATE RPGS and complexity.

I read the OP with the voice of Kanye West in my mind. And it was quite fun.

They could always make a separate PC version and everyone will be happy.

All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again...

Are you implying that everyone who plays console is a little kid? A find this thread a wee bit aggressive. And trust me, If I had the money, I wouldn't be playing Oblivion on the 360.

-"All of this has happened before..."
-"but the question remains: does all of this has to happen again?"

NO!

Something surprising might occur, if you ask me.

PS. You say it like, kids only play on consoles. Kids also play on PCs.

PPS. Haha. Got Ninja'd by Lady Nerevar.

Although I certainly agree Oblivion was simplified, you make it sound like it was a movie game tie in. Which it wasn't because it was enjoyable.

Oblivion is not a bad game. It also definitely wasn't some diabolical scheme by Bethesda to appeal to the console gamers more than anyone else. I'm going to post my post from another topic, as it gives a better overview of why Oblivion turned out the way it did:

I actually disagree OP. While I do believe the intent of any game developer is to definitely appeal to a larger audience, I do not believe the end product of Oblivion was what Bethesda intended. I say this for a variety of reasons. For one, Oblivion had been in development since Morrowind, and Todd Howard stated back then that he wanted Oblivion to be on the next generation consoles. So that became the driving force behind the game. The only problem is the next generation consoles didn't exist yet. So three or so years of development ended in Bethesda more or less guessing how Oblivion would work. In total, Bethesda only had 6 months of actual development time on the hardware when they finally got it, and the game was probably delayed from a Holiday 2005 release because they were still learning the new technology. Just think about how much actual content was cut from Oblivion due to having to get the game shipped and not being familiar or having the time to work with the new hardware (there were various ideas put up by the devs on the elder scrolls website while Oblivion was in development and never panned out). I think that this in itself reflects greatly why Oblivion turned out the way it did, feeling empty and incomplete.

While making the game more focused and appealing to a larger audience was probably also a push, I do not believe that was the driving force. What truly makes TES special is the fact that is it unique, different, complex, and a truly immersive world. I also firmly believe that Skyrim's development process will be the polar opposite of Oblivion's. For one, Skyrim isn't being made for a new generation of consoles, and it can still run on the existing ones. Bethesda has also made a new internal engine for the purpose of making their types of games, and it has probably been in development as far back as when Oblivion was released. We already know that Skyrim has been in development for quite a few years (which means this engine has been up for some time), and voice overs are starting to be recorded for the game now. Which also suggests that a major portion of the game is already done, so I'm expecting a much more fulfilling, complete, and polished experience than what we got with Oblivion. Does that mean this game will be Morrowind? Absolutely not. Morrowind has already been done, and it's time for TES to move forward. However in terms of feeling complete and like a fully-immersed world, it will probably feel more similar to Morrowind than Oblivion.

I agree...consoles svck! FLAME ME! :celebration:

I really dont see how he was insulting each and every console player, i dont even see an insult

This guy uses logic. I bow to your wiseness :bowdown: