It will take a few level-ups before you notice any difference. Also, high-level characters could possibly get all the perks and all skills to 100, we don't know yet. But at least you won't risk making an oh-so-restrictive custom class at the start of the game. Action games don't have that terrible risk, usually.

Something like Morrowind with GCD would be better.

I have to say that the attribute multipliers NEVER bothered me-maybe it's because I've usually played either with God Mode or more recently lower difficulties, but the way I see it is that it just encourages you to focus on the skills and attributes your class favors. Plus I tend to not really pay that much attention to the numbers-maybe that's just me, maybe if I were playing at higher difficulties it would feel more important, I don't know.

Of course, none of will necessarily matter with Skyrim. From what I read in the article, the game encourages specialization, so I don't think too many people should be worried about all their characters turning into jacks of all trades.

I can accept it for this one game, since we'll be playing a dragonborn dragonslayer (thus a preset class). However I wouldn't want to see it as a permanent change.

Wait, we're able to level with any of the 18 skills? Boo... Honestly, just boo. I'll level too fast just from Athletics.

holy begeezus thats awesome!!

Not bothered at all.

I assume the idea of this system sound similar to the Morrowind's mod GCD or Oblivion's mod Realistic Leveling? If thats the case, then heck ya.

There never really was a class system. The classes were more like templates. Every character I played in Morrowind/Oblivion ended up being custom despite what class they started out as. I think I used a custom class for most of them.

One line of argument against the removal of the class system is worth addressing. This is the "I'll level up by using skills I don't want to level up by using". Presumably what people have in mind here is inadvertent levelling up by using skills they, for the most part, can't avoid using - good candidates here seem to be Athletics, Acrobatics, Speechcraft.

It's worth mentioning, if only to quickly dismiss, two reasons for thinking that this forced levelling up will be a problem.

1. If the worry is that all characters will end up similar (because they'll all have high values in certain skill) then this problem also existed in previous TES games. Given that all characters will tend to use certain skills fairly heavily, all characters will have values in those skills. This is independent of whether you can only level up by increasing only a certain subset of skills, or whether you can level up by increasing any set of skills.

2. If the worry is that characters will be forced to level up and face too difficult enemies in combat, then this problem depends upon the level scaling. In Oblivion, you didn't want to increase levels by increasing Athletics, Acrobatics, Speechcraft, because that would hurt you in combat. But it sounds like the level scaling has been fixed, so hopefully you won't have to micromanage your levelling up for these reasons.

More likely the problem people have in mind has to do with the soft level cap at 50. What people might be worried about is getting to level 50, without maxing out the skills they want to specialise in. For example, you might want to max out your magic skills; however, because you are (to some extent inevitably) also increasing other skills like Athletics, Acrobatics, etc. then you get to level 50 without maxing out your magic skills. Then you have to grind to finish maxing out your magic skills, because after level 50 skill increases slow down substantially.

In response, it's worth noting that at present this is merely a worry - it's not clear that there's a genuine problem. It depends on what skills there are (perhaps Athletics and Acrobatics have been merged, so that you won't level up as often by both running and jumping), how fast skills increase, the starting value of your skills, and so on. Probably the starting value is the crucial one. Suppose you have six skills you want to max out, and they all start at 20. Then, just taking into account the skill increases needed to max out those skills, you'll get to level 48 (assuming 10 skill increases are needed to level up). But in that case, you can only raise a skill like Athletics 20 times. This sounds like a problem for magic users, since presumably they will want to have very high skill levels in most, if not all, schools of magic. And of course, if you want to raise more skills, or if the starting value is lower, then things get really tough - if you want to max out a set of skills, then it seems like that set will have to include only three or four skills.


We'll just have to wait to see how this is going to work (I suspect that we will see characters forced to specialise in only a small handful of skills - just judging by Todd's comments in GI).

Indeed.

Basically, the way things work now are that the skills one focuses on become one's major skills, as higher skills count more toward leveling up when they raise than lower skills. Everything else are just misc skills. Eventually, it NATURALLY turns into a major/minor/misc skill situation based on what you focused on. You aren't going to level, say, sneak because its sitting at level 10 and your character is 35 or something because it will end up taking forever to level up.

In addition, as one levels, one will naturally get access to new perks (based off of the level of certain skills). One will naturally take the perks related to what they do most, and thus, be more likely to continue on a path they have already decided upon, as they will svck at other actions. For example, if you take 6 perks related to one handed weapons, then suddenly decide you want to use two handers, first you must deal with the slow leveling, then you must deal with having literally 0 perks related to two handers. You're going to svck in combat against enemies that are most likely somewhat leveled to you. You can still do it if you want, but its going to take a lot of hard work.

The system is essentially still in place, but it is enforced naturally rather than strictly. I think that's a really cool way to do things because it makes the system more organic and less obvious.

Do we know what exactly is meant by higher skills "contribute more towards" levelling up? Is it that higher valued skills increase more quickly? Is it that if you level up using higher valued skills, your health will increase by a greater amount? Have Bethesda gotten rid of the 10 skill increases per level up situation, and so now you might need more than 10 increases if you are increasing lower valued skills?

Here's the quote: "The higher the skill, the more it contributes to levelling. 'Raising one skill from 34 to 35 is going to level you faster than raising one from 11 to 12,' Howard says. Thus specialisation in a few skills is advisable, but not required. The more skills you choose to advance, the more you delay your progression to higher levels."

This sounds like it will be either the first or third options I mentioned (or something else, perhaps?) - lower valued skills increase more slowly, or more increases of lower valued skills are required to level up.

Any ideas?

Everyone seems to forget that the class system in Oblivion and Morrowind didn't make any sense at all.

If you play a full mage and you went against your class by using melee weapons, heavy armor, armorer etc... you get rewarded with +5 STR and +5 END every level because low skills increase faster and don't count towards leveling.
On the other hand, if you just play a warrior naturally(without abusing your knowledge of the system) your bonuses for STR, AGI and END is only 2, 3... or just 1.

In Skyrim every skill counts towards leveling, and every level you pick a perk to refine your preferred style of character.
I'm sure this will make the game a lot more balanced and actually make characters more diverse instead of jack-of-all-trades.

Sorry, OP but I think you just don't get what they did here.

I voted other, because it really depends on how the new system works.

Glad its gone as I was always too tempted to use majic when playing a warrior, and to use a sword when I was a mage, and of course that meant that every character I did, wound up being a battle mage in truth even tho it was far from what I wanted, ... I dont blame bethesda tho, it was my own weakness that made me give in time and again, this just makes it easier for me to follow the straight and narrow lines I set for myself.

I'm intrigued to see how this will turn out. I always end up using some skills that I dont major or minor in. Not because I want to switch focus, but sometimes I just need to use something different (magic skills arent strong enough for instance, so I start using a sword to help protect me, while I throw fireballs around). Sure, I'd have to train up the new skill, but I never really liked how it would make a difference.

I started using GCD in Morrowind, and I've never looked back. So long as they still allow us to distribute skillpoints in the beginning, it should be a similar experience. At least thats how I understand things.

I will miss it a little, but I'm really eager for the new system and hopeful that it will be great. So... I chose other

The higher a level is, the more it will add to a level if you level that skill/

-lagg double post

Doesn't bother me, always used a custom class when applicable anyways. It's just now I don't have to grind out skills I wouldn't use so my attributes won't suffer.

I wonder if we can select certain Advantages/Disadvantages like in Daggerfall though (since that was handled through the Class list) or traits that aren't as clear-cut. How do races factor into this?

Many questions, much anticipation.

Step1. Google Oblivion preset classes and see the major skills in them.


Step2. Use those 7 skills the most while you play Skyrim - Higher leveled skill will level up faster and level YOU up faster.


Step3. There you go, your class system is back. Not sure why you are using arbitrary presets tho...

I won't miss the class system, just a waste of time anyhow. I will miss the birthsign perks though.

I custom played every time - it doesn't bother me that classes are gone. My actions define my class.

We'll probably see less "jack of all trades" godmode characters than Oblivion/Morrowind with this new sytem.


Not sure why you described the new system as that in your poll.

Wait no more birth signs? If we don't have those, I'll sure mod them and probably mod the old class system too They could've just implemented a feature where you can change your class.

I liked having a class in the past two games. Especially in Morrowind, where NPCs would use your class name in dialogue (I know, voice acting). But as long as every character doesn't start off with the same skills, I'll be fine. Even though it will svck trying to use a skill that a certain race doesn't have a bonus for. Having majors start at 25 was helpful and realistic.